Every embodied mind needs a self-model, aka "ego".... But human minds tend to get excessively attached to their egos.... AGI minds need not have these flaws...
"Enlightenment" is a hard concept to pin down, so I only use it poetically or metaphorically.... This is why the meat of my blog post focused on "attachment vs. non-attachment", which is an easier concept to grapple with using the language of science... -- Ben G On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 8:28 PM, Andrew G. Babian <[email protected]>wrote: > You can be enlightened and still be a nasty person. And sometimes, lack > of ego-identification is just pathological, and you can't even cope with > reality. It's such a rare condition, too, that it's hardly worth spending > much time on. Pursuing enlightenment, too, like riding an ox in search of > the ox, is almost a laughable pursuit. An AGI with no ability to > understand selves, as illusory as they may be, would simply be useless. > So, no, I would not want an AGI that was enlightened from the start. For > people, the idea might be a nice change, but it ain't good of itself. > andi > > Can I help? > > On May 2, 2013, at 2:38 AM, Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Interesting response, thanks... > > I think that humans have an evolved tendency to be overly egocentric, and > (esp. in modern Western culture) to model themselves as isolated, separate > beings much more than is really the case.... So compassion meditation is > in part a way of overcoming this particular human propensity.... OTOH, AGI > systems would not necessarily have that sort of propensity in the first > place... > > We definitely would, however, want our AGIs to have an initial bias to > model others and see the world from other beings' views.... This militates > toward a kind of non-attachment to one's own > self/self-model/individual-perspective... > > ben > > > > On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Chris Nolan <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Ben, >> >> that's an interesting concept. From my reading of Buddhism is also seems >> like non-attachment in meditation is also often linked with metta practice, >> or compassion meditation to state it in a simplified way. Have you looked >> at any of the neuroscience papers on that practice? In the simple example >> you supply of "Bob" detaching from his girlfriend the practice would be not >> just "letting go of the suffering of the break-up" but also adding a >> compassion practice for ex-girlfriend, in this way the Buddhist practice >> would be developing non-attachment in conjunction with compassion for the >> individual and their choice. In this way an individual avoids just falling >> into the trap of avoiding suffering and so getting caught by it even more. >> Side note: as someone having been in a number of break-ups I've found it >> works better than just trying to detach, haha... >> >> I bring it up because I wonder if the concept could be informative for >> the goal of creating a Friendly AI? In this way OpenCog's system of >> balancing attachment and experience could also be linked with broader >> compassion. Possibly in the implication links, while >> disassociating happiness with >> "put_arm_around_girlfriend" >> and adding an implication that happiness for girlfriend includes >> separation from Bob. That possibly hints at way of formulating ethics for >> A.I. >> >> -Chris >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> >> *To:* AGI <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 1, 2013 1:24 AM >> *Subject:* [agi] Toward enlightened AGIs >> >> For your general amusement, here is a blog post I rote on >> >> "The dynamics of attachment and non-attachment in human and AGI minds": >> >> >> http://multiverseaccordingtoben.blogspot.hk/2013/05/the-dynamics-of-attachment-and-non.html >> >> :) >> ben >> >> >> -- >> Ben Goertzel, PhD >> http://goertzel.org >> >> "My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> AGI >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/20347893-f72b365c >> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/212726-deec6279> | >> Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > > > -- > Ben Goertzel, PhD > http://goertzel.org > > "My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/3870391-266c919a> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/212726-deec6279> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD http://goertzel.org "My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
