Ben, >I think that humans have an evolved tendency to be overly egocentric, and >(esp. in modern Western culture) to model themselves as isolated, separate >beings much >more than is really the case.... So compassion meditation is in >part a way of overcoming this particular human propensity.... OTOH, AGI >systems would not >necessarily have that sort of propensity in the first >place...
I don't necessarily disagree. A slight difference I would state is that humans have evolved the natural ability to feel compassion, however it's often linked to group identity; i.e. we naturally feel compassion for family and those we consider members of our "tribe" but not necessarily for those outside. Compassion meditation is then a way to change that neural wiring to create that natural compassion for those whom we might normally consider "outside our tribe," or even for the "enemies of our tribe." AGI systems might not have the bias to tribal identity and creating the "other," but I wonder if the natural bias might be towards creating no group identity at all and so the unstated bias would then be for all to be "other"? >We definitely would, however, want our AGIs to have an initial bias to model >others and see the world from other beings' views.... This militates toward a >kind of >non-attachment to one's own self/self-model/individual-perspective... Yeah, I think that's a very good point. There's a very big difference between non-attachment to self because of a viewpoint of being connected with a larger whole and non-attachment to, or really detachment from, self because of a lack of connection to any group or identity. How do you see this being implemented within an AGI system? Would it be necessary to have it explicitly designed within OpenCog's framework or would it be a part of the implicationLinks that are learned through experience? This also brings up another question which is what role will the creation of multi-agent systems play in the evolution of AGI? It seems likely to me that either OpenCog or some other AGI system will eventually create a general AI reasoning capacity, an AGI tool, that is human-level. But, will that be the same as the creation of an AGI agent, or will it be necessary to then evolve the AGI from a tool-level to an agent-level within some larger multi-agent system (likely a combination of humans and other AGIs). My intuition would be yes because I think that is how you would evolve the AGI's understanding of itself within the larger group context, creating the experience and implied understanding of behavior within the larger group (which then necessitates a model of self). The next question begged is then what size magnitude of multi-agent system? Would only a few AGI agents interacting with humans be enough, or would it be more beneficial to have a very large number of AGI agents (an AGI society)? Or, stated another way, is it necessary to co-evolve AGI society with the AGI agent? It is a part of how human intelligence has evolved... ________________________________ From: Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> To: AGI <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2013 3:38 AM Subject: Re: [agi] Toward enlightened AGIs Interesting response, thanks... I think that humans have an evolved tendency to be overly egocentric, and (esp. in modern Western culture) to model themselves as isolated, separate beings much more than is really the case.... So compassion meditation is in part a way of overcoming this particular human propensity.... OTOH, AGI systems would not necessarily have that sort of propensity in the first place... We definitely would, however, want our AGIs to have an initial bias to model others and see the world from other beings' views.... This militates toward a kind of non-attachment to one's own self/self-model/individual-perspective... ben On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Chris Nolan <[email protected]> wrote: Ben, > > >that's an interesting concept. From my reading of Buddhism is also seems like >non-attachment in meditation is also often linked with metta practice, or >compassion meditation to state it in a simplified way. Have you looked at any >of the neuroscience papers on that practice? In the simple example you supply >of "Bob" detaching from his girlfriend the practice would be not just "letting >go of the suffering of the break-up" but also adding a compassion practice for >ex-girlfriend, in this way the Buddhist practice would be developing >non-attachment in conjunction with compassion for the individual and their >choice. In this way an individual avoids just falling into the trap of >avoiding suffering and so getting caught by it even more. Side note: as >someone having been in a number of break-ups I've found it works better than >just trying to detach, haha... > > >I bring it up because I wonder if the concept could be informative for the >goal of creating a Friendly AI? In this way OpenCog's system of balancing >attachment and experience could also be linked with broader compassion. >Possibly in the implication links, while disassociating happiness with >"put_arm_around_girlfriend" >and adding an implication that happiness for girlfriend includes separation >from Bob. That possibly hints at way of formulating ethics for A.I. > > >-Chris > > > > > >________________________________ > From: Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> >To: AGI <[email protected]> >Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 1:24 AM >Subject: [agi] Toward enlightened AGIs > > >For your general amusement, here is a blog post I rote on > >"The dynamics of attachment and non-attachment in human and AGI minds": > >http://multiverseaccordingtoben.blogspot.hk/2013/05/the-dynamics-of-attachment-and-non.html > >:) >ben > > >-- >Ben Goertzel, PhD >http://goertzel.org > >"My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche > > >------------------------------------------- >AGI >Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/20347893-f72b365c >Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > >AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription -- Ben Goertzel, PhD http://goertzel.org "My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
