Marco – I think a significant number of people would choose potential immortality in a box over mortality in flesh.
Also, if one believes Ray Kurzweil’s predictions regarding the progress of AGI, the technology for uploaded “immortality in a box” may come before the cure of many life-ending diseases (cancer, dementia, etc.). Given a choice between an early demise due to disease, or complete degeneration of my mental faculties, I, for one, would chose immortality in a box. From: Marco Alpini Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2015 9:49 AM To: AGI Subject: Re: [agi] AGI and Cosmism Thanks Steve, I have been using the term uploading meaning downloading being unaware about what the mainstream means with uploading which I also think unconceivable and unnecessary. Why, the hell we should aim to end up in a box? On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Steve Richfield <[email protected]> wrote: Marco, downloading: placing a human consciousness into an electomechanical computerized body.that continues to function in the real world. This is the "live forever machine" that in production would probably be worth more than the total value of the Earth, because people would gladly mortgage their futures to have futures. uploading: placing a human consciousness into a VR computer system having no bodies or real-world presence. This appears to be at once probably more difficult than downloading because you would have to simulate EVERYTHING instead of "just" a human, and is little better than death for most people. PR: Acronym for Public Relations - the art and science of presenting a good image to the public. Steve ========= On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Marco Alpini <[email protected]> wrote: Steve, what do you mean with downloading? an augmentation of our brain capabilities with internal or external devices? What is PR? On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 5:58 AM, Steve Richfield <[email protected]> wrote: Logan, On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 8:50 AM, Logan Streondj <[email protected]> wrote: Cosmism seems to be the religion espoused by top tier AGI researchers. Namely Ben Goertzel and Hugo De Garis, though some others have also written books about Cosmism recently. Create-your-own God. Myself, I prefer our present godless world. Heaven would be SUCH a drag. I've always felt my life path was to be a spiritual leader, Spiritual has to do with what can NOT be presently proven false. Now that there are solid proofs that present religions like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are false, some people look to AGI. Of course once constructed, AGI will no longer be a religion - it will be technology. and I'm rather interested in the PR of AGI. What are the bounds on what you call AGI? Does this include uploading? Downloading? Enhancement of individuals (like you and me) to full AGI capability? Etc? Unless you have thought out these questions VERY carefully - MUCH more carefully than the people you now cite, PR will bring disaster to AGI as others with different opinions react in unfortunate ways. Having a strong group of people that share the vision of beneficial AGI future, is conducive to good legislation and funding. No, the most likely result would be legislation AGAINST a potential world-ending technology. Just like bathroom atomic experimentation is now illegal, AGI research would become illegal. However, if you were to "succeed" in attracting "good" legislation and funding, you would then be up against the situation that SO many have written about - that there are countless ways that an AGI could destroy us all, and NO viable approach to protect us from that - leading to our eventual doom no matter WHAT we did to delay/avoid that end. Turing Church and some Transhumanist associations seem to be what is available. What is REALLY needed is a leader pulling people to a more tractable path. There is WAY too much that is presently unknown about how we work to ever program a computer to emulate it, or even understand it, even with limitless intelligence. The one shining light I see is to concentrate on technologies leading to downloading - which is why I have put so much effort into a super-microscope capable of diagramming brains. My hope is that downloading outruns the current misdirected wave of people trying to program computers to think, so PEOPLE remain in charge, rather than a new specie of computer that has NO interest beyond simple curiosity in our preservation. In short, given the presence of hazards like Ben and Hugo, downloading becomes MUCH more than "just" about living forever or making LOTS of money. It becomes about saving the human race from the AGI that some fools on this forum seek to build. 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