On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 2:20 PM, simon <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Logan, > > If you had the chance to study a bit the history of science, you know that > often revolutionary ideas appeared at the same time at different place on > the globe from people with no connections. > Yes, like liebniz and newton. > Maybe the morphogenic field has something to do with it, or maybe it is > just that with a bit of creative thinking some people come to the same > conclusion because it makes sens to. > who knows. > > What is funny is that I have been thinking for years about what you are > trying to accomplish with Joyful Lifestyle Co-Operative. There are some > small differences (I thought about making it a religion too but I have yet > to be convinced it is the best way to go, still you talk about a Coop so > maybe I misunderstood and you are not convinced either). I also thought > about applying Positive Psychology principles. > positive psychology only aims to achieve the baseline "satisfactory". life-coaching, yoga, meditation, aerobic exercise there are many forms that help exceed baseline. > To me it did resolve one big problem of our society (well many problems > but I want to give you only a taste of my reasoning), namely the sens of > community. I am convinced we are wired to benefit from it and all suffering > in some ways of society evolving away from such fundamental. > Yes, I've been working with the intentional community movement for years. Have many friends who are interested or have already bought properties to turn into communities. Personally we moved to a small town where there is a lot more community atmosphere. > Nutrition is also a big problem and I envision a community that can > produce bio goods without pesticide or GMO at an affordable cost. > Yep, we eat 90% Organic. > > I have lots to say about the vision I had and would be delighted to hear > about yours. Nothing else has to come out of it. Yet who knows. I also live > in Canada. Montreal, how about you ? > Owen Sound, Ontario recently moved here from Toronto. > > I actually been thinking about this for so long that it was only 2 years > ago that it occurred to me that the community I envisioned, if it grew > large enough, could be a productive, AGI research machine. > Yep, I've been thinking about it probably from 2007. Communities are strongest around 50-60 high fifties is the isotopes of iron, the most abundant non-radioactive large atom. Obviously once they get much over 200 they sneak into some rather radioactive territory. I thnk that may be why there is so much opposition in the house of commons, with over 300 members it is rather volatile, there have to be at least two atoms to fill it up. For instance the Liberal party has 184 seats, that puts it at Tungsten, which has a fairly long half-life. We can certainly hope they will shine as a beacon of Canada's future. Conservatives at 99 are either an isotope ruthenium, or a more volatile atom. NDP at 44 are an isotope of Calcium which certainly has strength. point being that even though only one party will effectively be passing bills, the house of commons lacks the cohesion of a single atomic group. While it may be okay for politics where progress can be slow, for AGI research it is best to have many groups that can work together. > And as such, with compassion, happiness and critical thinking values being > encouraged along with a sens of individual responsibility toward the > community as well as a community responsibility toward the individual well > being, it might just be what humanity needs to oppose the potentially > irresponsible race toward AGI that will inevitably come from the private > and military sectors. > Yes, I also agree that the most responsible would be a public transparent libreware (open-source) effort. > Yet the little progress made so far in the AGI field (not in the narrow AI > field) might mean that it is the right time to build such community > (because when serious progress will be made, serious financing will flow > from everywhere). And a happier lifestyle, racing to the solution of all > humanity problems yet based on science must have a huge appeal at least to > some. > I don't think we could solve all the problems, not in any good way. Rather once we have solved our problems here on earth, i.e. learned to live in a sustainable and responsbile way, then a new chapter opens up for us, as we will be mature enough to openly negotiate with our galactic neighbours. It is at that point, where I believe the advantage of AGI will become quite apparent. All of our galactic neighbours that have visited have significantly larger crania (nordics and various "Grey" species), and/or are physically stronger and more vicious (reptilians). Also when considering that most inhabitable planets (to water-based life) are already inhabited, and have galactic oversight and claim. That leaves us with rather little choice other than to unite with our robotic extensions of ourselves and expand to the less habitable worlds such as mercury/venus and the cold outer planets, where there is less competition. Of course even to do that, we not onl have to prove that AGI is safe for us on earth, but safe for our galactic neighbours. Since obviously any kind of malicious AGI would be summarily eradicated from our solar system by present neighbours. That is another reason I believe it is good to work in community, as a robot or AGI that grows up in a community, socializing with humans, animals, plants, etc is more likely to have a healthy attitude. Like Ray Kurzweil I see the future of AGI as a steady kind of progess, where it will simply start as a periphery extension, how people have electric appliances, smart phones, smart homes, they will simply get smarter. Assuming they are open-source libreware then everything should be fine, but with proprietary products as happened with Toyota's cars propensity to randomly accelerate, there may be issues. So I have several ideas for how to make a viable libreware AGI that invokes global collaboration and funding. but I guess that's for another send. In any case, it made no sens not to at least let you know that we came to > similar (to what degree, that will be interesting to learn while discussing > about it) conclusions. > Thanks, I'm happy you have. > > Have a great day. > > > Simon > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 23:25:31 -0400 > Subject: Re: [agi] AGI and Cosmism > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > > > I seem to have clicked send instead of save draft, the email was > unfinished. > I was going to go on to say that Cosmism or this new faith, > would promote science, and healthy joyful lifestyle. > > Currently I'm calling my "company" Joyful Lifestyle Co-Operative. > > Realistically any modern day faith has to take advantage of modern social > infrastructure. In order to be called a "religion" it requires some > centrality, in order to have a list of members for instance. Since > de-centralization is very popular nowadays, and has proven itself in > successful co-operatives, it seems that a co-operative would be the best > organizational structure to take. > > In Canada in order to be a religious organization you have to be a > charity. > Thus it would have to be a charitable or at least non-profit co-operative. > > The main goal being the enjoying of life. > Optimizing to maximize the extent and diversity of it. > Since water-based life isn't compatible with most planets in this solar > system, > and even not compatible with certain areas on Earth, it makes sense to > create host bodies (AGI's) to fill those niches. > > In terms of practical, for what people would be doing when joining, > is learning about optimal nutrition, eating healthy potlucks together, > also doing healthy physical activity, meditating to help community, > and participating in citizen science projects (ideally AGI related). > > Right now, there is a lot of specialization, such as gyms, nutritionists, > wellness centres, churches and sports stores which offer each of these > things individually, > But Joyful Lifestyle Co-Operative is able to offer the all-inclusive > package. > > Ideally I'd like it to run ontop of Mwak the human-speakable > programming-language, > that way it would be feeding an AGI project, which funnels into GI-OS > (General-Intelligence Operating-System) > The public front is that it makes prayer more effective, both yourself, > the computer, and universe are better able to understand what it is you > wish. > > As GI-OS grows, each Joy Life Co-Op community centre would have it's own > GI-OS "oracle", and eventually each member, to help them lead a more > joyful lifestyle, such as by offering live life-coaching, helping maintain > nutrition, organizing schedules and helping with scientific experiments. > > Anyways there is more, but I'll send for now. > -- Logan > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Steve Richfield < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Logan, > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 8:50 AM, Logan Streondj <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Cosmism seems to be the religion espoused by top tier AGI researchers. > Namely Ben Goertzel and Hugo De Garis, though some others have also > written books about Cosmism recently. > > > Create-your-own God. > > Myself, I prefer our present godless world. Heaven would be SUCH a drag. > > > > > > I've always felt my life path was to be a spiritual leader, > > > Spiritual has to do with what can NOT be presently proven false. > > > I'd have to disagree, for instance meditation has been shown to have > plenty of benefits. > Similarly remote-viewing and past-lives have been corroborated. > > > Now that there are solid proofs that present religions like Judaism, > Christianity, and Islam are false, some people look to AGI. Of course once > constructed, AGI will no longer be a religion - it will be technology. > > > Oh I think you are applying that magic quote. > > > > and I'm rather interested in the PR of AGI. > > > What are the bounds on what you call AGI? Does this include uploading? > Downloading? Enhancement of individuals (like you and me) to full AGI > capability? Etc? > > Unless you have thought out these questions VERY carefully - MUCH more > carefully than the people you now cite, PR will bring disaster to AGI as > others with different opinions react in unfortunate ways. > > > Having a strong group of people that share the vision of beneficial AGI > future, is conducive to good legislation and funding. > > > No, the most likely result would be legislation AGAINST a potential > world-ending technology. Just like bathroom atomic experimentation is now > illegal, AGI research would become illegal. > > However, if you were to "succeed" in attracting "good" legislation and > funding, you would then be up against the situation that SO many have > written about - that there are countless ways that an AGI could destroy us > all, and NO viable approach to protect us from that - leading to our > eventual doom no matter WHAT we did to delay/avoid that end. > > > Turing Church and some Transhumanist associations seem to be what is > available. > > > What is REALLY needed is a leader pulling people to a more tractable path. > There is WAY too much that is presently unknown about how we work to ever > program a computer to emulate it, or even understand it, even with > limitless intelligence. > > The one shining light I see is to concentrate on technologies leading to > downloading - which is why I have put so much effort into a > super-microscope capable of diagramming brains. My hope is that downloading > outruns the current misdirected wave of people trying to program computers > to think, so PEOPLE remain in charge, rather than a new specie of computer > that has NO interest beyond simple curiosity in our preservation. > > In short, given the presence of hazards like Ben and Hugo, downloading > becomes MUCH more than "just" about living forever or making LOTS of money. > It becomes about saving the human race from the AGI that some fools on this > forum seek to build. > > Steve > ============= > > tfgrq > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10443978-6f4c28ac> | > Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > > > > > -- > Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a six > hour workday. 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