Telmo, On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 6:23 AM, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 8:58 PM, Steve Richfield < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Logan, >> >> On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 8:50 AM, Logan Streondj <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Cosmism seems to be the religion espoused by top tier AGI researchers. >>> Namely Ben Goertzel and Hugo De Garis, though some others have also >>> written books about Cosmism recently. >>> >> >> Create-your-own God. Myself, I prefer our present godless world. Heaven >> would be SUCH a drag. >> >>> >>> I've always felt my life path was to be a spiritual leader, >>> >> >> Spiritual has to do with what can NOT be presently proven false. >> > > How do you categorize things that are proved to be unprovable (e.g. by > Gödel's incompleteness, a formal system cannot prove its own consistency, > and I would say this includes the human mind), or uncomputable (e.g. the > halting problem)? > You missed my point. While there are MANY things that can NOT be proven to be TRUE, there are also MANY things that CAN be proven to be FALSE. Most importantly, that present religious writings of ALL current religions are NOT the product of an omnipotent benevolent God. My proof ONLY covers this particular point and does NOT address whether any religious writings are the product on a demonic God, Aliens, creative people, etc. On a side note; in 1994 I was sold into indentured servitude in Saudi Arabia. To escape I had to LEARN the Quran - well enough to engage in discussions/arguments with experts regarding details therein. I needed a good central presumption so I could scan for anything that violated that presumption, rather than trying to learn the entire book from scratch in just a few days. The presumption that worked for me was that it was written by a VERY creative social engineer who was addressing problems of 1400 years ago, like people eating their children when they ran out of food, rather than our present-day problems. Note here that it is *especially* difficult to prove something TRUE when it is in fact FALSE. Religions have been stating that their propositions are unproveable for millennia as a device for attracting devotees - but apparently I am the first to work on proving them FALSE. The proofs are pretty simple - just look for present-day knowledge that is obviously MORE important than anything in present religions, AND that could still be taught to a primitive person of 2,000 years ago. There are several such things. Then, ask yourself why an omnipotent benevolent God would choose to omit such material if he knew it. Two of these things clearly should have come from Jesus as better ways of addressing conflict, but for some inexplicable reason (if you think there was a God involved in this) Jesus never said them. One of them actually WAS said by Mohammad - who then failed to realize the value of what he had as a means of debunking the Bible, which points the finger of doubt in BOTH directions. So, Gödel was right that religions are unproveable, but NOT for the reasons he imagined. They are unprovably true BECAUSE they are provably FALSE. Steve ================ > > >> Now that there are solid proofs that present religions like Judaism, >> Christianity, and Islam are false, some people look to AGI. Of course once >> constructed, AGI will no longer be a religion - it will be technology. >> >> >>> and I'm rather interested in the PR of AGI. >>> >> >> What are the bounds on what you call AGI? Does this include uploading? >> Downloading? Enhancement of individuals (like you and me) to full AGI >> capability? Etc? >> >> Unless you have thought out these questions VERY carefully - MUCH more >> carefully than the people you now cite, PR will bring disaster to AGI as >> others with different opinions react in unfortunate ways. >> >> >>> Having a strong group of people that share the vision of beneficial AGI >>> future, is conducive to good legislation and funding. >>> >> >> No, the most likely result would be legislation AGAINST a potential >> world-ending technology. Just like bathroom atomic experimentation is now >> illegal, AGI research would become illegal. >> >> However, if you were to "succeed" in attracting "good" legislation and >> funding, you would then be up against the situation that SO many have >> written about - that there are countless ways that an AGI could destroy us >> all, and NO viable approach to protect us from that - leading to our >> eventual doom no matter WHAT we did to delay/avoid that end. >> >>> >>> Turing Church and some Transhumanist associations seem to be what is >>> available. >>> >> >> What is REALLY needed is a leader pulling people to a more tractable >> path. There is WAY too much that is presently unknown about how we work to >> ever program a computer to emulate it, or even understand it, even with >> limitless intelligence. >> >> The one shining light I see is to concentrate on technologies leading to >> downloading - which is why I have put so much effort into a >> super-microscope capable of diagramming brains. My hope is that downloading >> outruns the current misdirected wave of people trying to program computers >> to think, so PEOPLE remain in charge, rather than a new specie of computer >> that has NO interest beyond simple curiosity in our preservation. >> >> In short, given the presence of hazards like Ben and Hugo, downloading >> becomes MUCH more than "just" about living forever or making LOTS of money. >> It becomes about saving the human race from the AGI that some fools on this >> forum seek to build. >> >> Steve >> ============= >> >>> tfgrq >>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10443978-6f4c28ac> | >>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a >> six hour workday. That will easily create enough new jobs to bring back >> full employment. >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/25129130-ee4f7d55> | >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10443978-6f4c28ac> | > Modify > <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> > Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com> > -- Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a six hour workday. 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