-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Colin,
I'm not sure who you are arguing with. Personally I love confrontation, it is an opportunity to grow. However your statements seem rather vague, and frankly "wishy-washy". Like can you give quoted example of "arrogant statements that assert an understanding of reality on some 'deep' level that has no objective evidence for it"? Anyways, I guess I'll post another thread regarding my views on Buddhism and how that relates to transhumanism. Feel free to explain what parts don't make sense to you, - -- which I think is what you meant by the "bullshit" expletive. Though preferably quote the sections which are unclear. Also feel free to voice alternative views. On 03/15/2016 06:40 PM, Colin Parr wrote: > Ok, joking isn't helping. I'll be serious and try and explain > better. An overlong post, I'm afraid. I don't do 'tl;dr'. > > I _really mean_ what I say. I'm not just trying to wind you up > (or others for that matter). > > Honestly, it is not my intention to make anyone (you, in this > case) feel sad or to feel they've received hateful comments. I am > not _trying_ to upset anyone in an emotional way for fun or > anything like that. I actually don't get a kick from this sort of > argument itself (a certain amount of pride and pleasure creating > what I flatter myself to be the odd well-turned phrase, or pointed > gag; hence my opening comment; sure). I also naturally tend to be > jokey and feel there's no better way to be serious than "ha ha > only serious". I get that sometime comes across as sarcasm but, > hey, sometimes I intend it to. > > Actually, re-reading my posts I think I'm being quite clear: I > don't like wishy-washy 'belief' statements and, you know what?, I > actually do find to be arrogant statements that assert an > understanding of reality on some 'deep' level that has no > objective evidence for it, especially when the stater also insists > that this be taken seriously, not mocked every time it is mentioned > in polite company, and tries to use such statements as components > of otherwise rational arguments. > > I've no doubt people who are into Buddhism, say, who mediate a lot > and spend their time contemplating the lack of self and whatever, > actually do come to believe they feel that way and they've > accessed some deep truth. I've done my share of reading about it, > meditating and hanging around at retreats etc and that seems to be > somewhat repeatable and history also says as much. There's > nothing that suggests to me that that this is actually true of > reality, however, and isn't some self-induced state brought about > by the activity itself combined with absorbing dogma in a > supportive (often manipulative, in my experience, nefarious or not) > social group and having a personal desire for it, or more likely > anything 'meaningful', to be true. Often combined with a history > of mental illness or a tragedy in life to be honest. At least, > that seems to be plausible and a simpler explanation. > > So, if anything, what I find hateful is this 'random > culturally-accepted belief system' (had to insert the hyphen, > sorry) that says people's beliefs ought to be given respect > automatically, and the whackier the belief the more respect they > should get. Bullshit! You say something whacky and I'll call > "bullshit!". I expect the same in return. If everyone I am with > at a party says "STFU Colin, you're talking nonsense" (no, really, > you'd be surprised - it has happened more than once!) then I tend > to get the message and, sometimes, even go as far as changing my > opinion! > > I know! How well adjusted am I? > > Whoops, that'll be that 'ego' I suppose. > > I do respect an individual's right to hold any opinion they care > to but don't expect me to sit still and quiet while otherwise > intelligent humans let themselves down when they choose to express > these arbitrary, frequently contradictory and sometimes downright > subversive statements that, if left unchallenged, have a nasty > habit of causing actions that impede our otherwise 'God-given' > right to figure out what is happening here and generally improve > ourselves. I mean, it's a clear contradiction, isn't it?! I also > realise I'm moving around a bit in the religious space here, but > only in a desire to be fair! > > I'm afraid to say I don't feel responsible for how someone > responds, emotionally or otherwise, if that is the situation. Of > course 'offence' is likely to be had (not 'taken' - it is entirely > a product of the receiver). Most people don't like to be told > they're talking rubbish when they think they aren't. But! This > nonsense of "what you said offended my beliefs" we seem to have > got used to as a societal 'get out of argument free' card needs to > be put down. Not saying that's what you are doing, of course: > you're just not happy with what I say. And yes, that does make me > feel a little bad but, importantly, not as bad as if I said nothing > and then wondered later why people are happily saying we can't > teach evolution or extract stem cells or whatever, as examples. > > And yes, I realise that isn't what _you_ are saying but it is just > a spectrum of bullshit as far as I am concerned so I'll start at > the end nearest to me and work my way down. > > Now, I honestly hope that makes you feel better in some way. > > After really hijacking this thread I'm going to go read Ben's > paper now and next time hope to respond to that. Happy to discuss > this if you feel inclined also but perhaps a separate thread at > least, or private conversation, would suit the list better. > > Take care, Colin > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 15 Mar 2016, at 5:16 pm, justcamel <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Next time you craft three hateful postings in a row, try to >> sense your own ego ... try to observe how your identification >> with form and your illusionary self strengthens every time you >> define something as "other" and/or "enemy" and every time you >> judge, ridicule and/or attack "other". >> >> "Colin has to do something about a posting Colin did not like. >> Colin can make another person feel sad by attacking/ridiculing >> him/her. Yes, let's feel alive by defining ourselves against the >> duality of 'other'." ... >> >> All the best! >> >>> On 15.03.2016 00:07, Colin Parr wrote: Excellent! You seem to >>> have come on a long way in just a few email exchanges. The >>> difference is something to take pride in. Well done you! >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On 14 Mar 2016, at 11:11 pm, justcamel <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> No worries. I don't find arrogant emails nor people who are >>>> satisfied with a random set of culturally accepted belief >>>> systems to be very encouraging. ;-) >>>> >>>>> On 14.03.2016 22:12, Colin Parr wrote: Well, OK, but >>>>> you've still some work to do on that front, I fear. Please >>>>> don't take that as encouragement. >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: >>>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: >>>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/14513811-9a411e54 >>>> >>>> >>>> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>> >>> ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/23508161-fa52c03c >>> >>> >>> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/14513811-9a411e54 >> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: > https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: > https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/5037279-a88c7a6d > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; eb0005 > > > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > - -- Logan Streondj, A dream of Gaia's future. http://joyfullifestyle.ca You can use encrypted email with me, how to: https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/ key fingerprint: BD7E 6E2A E625 6D47 F7ED 30EC 86D8 FC7C FAD7 2729 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJW6RLOAAoJEIbY/Hz61ycphmMP/3Mt5tOf7f3l/zJ/GiY6GMhy hbdLK8IIxHY1XUJAD9INLzC3CS5lYDv63fDnFgzRgQJa8pFXwpKpnzeRQY2DhMK4 ZqMmBJyc5JEqc8qKsmS4+w7Zs7mQDc4ooDEzN2xYSjHyqBbjtGs2BosmbZPs6DQB mUuXpVGhHv8vM1x7VssqiUleGaNMau5hl1dOiLkY3E7mwt6YjnbW7m7NQ/f/jH7v /UnnJrH2VkOO7tgGkO69Gyuiyz87oGTnZe7mlHWa/p4f0g8aIzccUt0Qkhg7HEOe BUqGatBtBrm2PVcpwXF/Q2p2VMBRvoMifK4r1MsWn+hJ8hyMp6jqsg6AJ6zPdQsq Q30+F+zKGhRZVq56c+Goq+SWnR1A+oggTHb0q288dEjF5FsPlo22rTLmela+zqSx 9/doVWb+miHmVd1SZZ+dYsg0qbeVtMYR8ROsBuWOw4oZ/0+6vpGUWh3qGIWqvWZh QxGDXCzNkxrchwJhy1KWkJ6SaegIyfS5KyqoEItMqDK3bxEcXx9xpV1Ha++Fodnz mf7CU0rn1e+3jcj2dUTypn+3pev/rKSOF7wD5miqL9eRuivjrKqhPVe4bvEjqsyT Z+hmgHKA9MJHtCpBB1s4eOnJmUtvmH64yuzmOlVEP2dbfnP4at33nk6My9S/tUrr Qq7EBHMc7Ocgow0J6EAN =xVsJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
