Mark, Chapter number please?
--Abram On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Mark Waser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Douglas Hofstadter's newest book I Am A Strange Loop (currently available > from Amazon for $7.99 - > http://www.amazon.com/Am-Strange-Loop-Douglas-Hofstadter/dp/B001FA23HM) has > an excellent chapter showing Godel in syntax and semantics. I highly > recommend it. > > The upshot is that while it is easily possible to define a complete formal > system of syntax, that formal system can always be used to convey something > (some semantics) that is (are) outside/beyond the system -- OR, to > paraphrase -- meaning is always incomplete because it can always be added to > even inside a formal system of syntax. > > This is why I contend that language translation ends up being AGI-complete > (although bounded subsets clearly don't need to be -- the question is > whether you get a usable/useful subset more easily with or without first > creating a seed AGI). > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Abram Demski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 12:38 PM > Subject: Re: [agi] constructivist issues > > >> Mark, >> >> The way you invoke Godel's Theorem is strange to me... perhaps you >> have explained your argument more fully elsewhere, but as it stands I >> do not see your reasoning. >> >> --Abram >> >> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Mark Waser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> >>>> It looks like all this "disambiguation" by moving to a more formal >>>> language is about sweeping the problem under the rug, removing the >>>> need for uncertain reasoning from surface levels of syntax and >>>> semantics, to remember about it 10 years later, retouch the most >>>> annoying holes with simple statistical techniques, and continue as >>>> before. >>> >>> That's an excellent criticism but not the intent. >>> >>> Godel's Incompleteness Theorem means that you will be forever building . >>> . . >>> . >>> >>> All that disambiguation does is provides a solid, commonly-agreed upon >>> foundation to build from. >>> >>> English and all natural languages are *HARD*. They are not optimal for >>> simple understanding particularly given the realms we are currently in >>> and >>> ambiguity makes things even worse. >>> >>> Languages have so many ambiguities because of the way that they (and >>> concepts) develop. You see something new, you grab the nearest analogy >>> and >>> word/label and then modify it to fit. That's why you then later need the >>> much longer words and very specific scientific terms and names. >>> >>> Simple language is what you need to build the more specific complex >>> language. Having an unambiguous constructed language is simply a >>> template >>> or mold that you can use as scaffolding while you develop NLU. Children >>> start out very unambiguous and concrete and so should we. >>> >>> (And I don't believe in statistical techniques unless you have the >>> resources >>> of Google or AIXI) >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> agi >>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ >>> Modify Your Subscription: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> agi >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ >> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
