Mike, All chinese look the same for me. But for a chinese person they don't. Why is this? Is there another clue here?
Thanks, Deepak On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]>wrote: > David, > > There must be a fair amount of cog sci/AI analysis of all this - of how > the brain analyses and remembers tunes - and presumably leading theories > (as for vision). Do you or anyone know more here? > > Also, you have noted something of extreme importance, wh. is a lot more > than "a step further". > > OTOH you've been analysing how we recognize the same, general tune in > different, individual renditions. > > OTOH you've pointed out, we also recognize the INDIVIDUAL differences > of/variatiions on the same genre/class - we appreciate the different ways > Davis/Gillespie play as well as that they're playing the same tune. > > Now correct me but isn't the individual dimension of images of all kinds, > almost entirely missing from AI? The capacity to recognize what > makes individuals of a species individual, and not just that they belong to > the same species. Isn't visual object recognition for example almost > entirely focussed on recognizing general objects rather than individual > objects - that that's an example of a general doll, rather than an > individual particularly beaten up, or just slightly and disturbingly altered > doll? > > No doubt AI can recognize individual fingerprints, but it's the capacity to > recognize individuals as variations on the general - to recognize that he > has a particularly sarcastic smile, or she has a particularly lyrical, fluid > walk, or that that tune contrasts harmonious and discordant music (as per > rap) in a distinctive way - that's missing, no? > > > *From:* David Butler <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2010 3:44 PM > *To:* agi <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [agi] How do we hear music > > When we listen to music there are many elements that come into play that > create our memory of how the song goes. If you take a piece of instrumental > music, you have the melody, a succession of tones in a certain order, > duration of each note in the melody, timbre, or tonal quality, (guitar vs > trombone), time, how fast the song is played. Phrasing, what part of the > melody is emphasized using volume, change of tone quality etc... Is the > melody played slurred with all the notes run together or staccato played > with short notes. > > Too take it a step further how do we recognize a solo played by Miles Davis > rather than Dizzy Gillespie playing the same song both on trumpet but sound > completely different in style. How do we recognize when two different > conductors direct the same music with the same orchestra but yet make it > sound different? > > . > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Matt Mahoney <[email protected]>wrote: > >> deepakjnath wrote: >> >> > Why do we listen to a song sung in different scale and yet identify it >> as the same song.? Does it have something to do with the fundamental way in >> which we store memory? >> >> For the same reason that gray looks green on a red background. You have >> more neurons that respond to differences in tones than to absolute >> frequencies. >> >> >> -- Matt Mahoney, [email protected] >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* deepakjnath <[email protected]> >> *To:* agi <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Thu, July 22, 2010 3:59:57 PM >> *Subject:* [agi] How do we hear music >> >> Why do we listen to a song sung in different scale and yet identify it as >> the same song.? Does it have something to do with the fundamental way in >> which we store memory? >> >> cheers, >> Deepak >> *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | >> Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | >> Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > -- cheers, Deepak ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=8660244-6e7fb59c Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
