It seems to me that the hardest thing for AI to comprehend would be the evolutionary and social aspects of intelligence. What is good for today may not be good for tomorrow or vice verse. As an example, the acceptance of Stravinsky's The right of Spring as a great work of art/music. When it was introduced it was not accepted at all. It was ahead of it's time harmonically. The same can be said of a lot of visual art. It also could be said that a great many people today do not like Stravinsky, some like country music or Mozart. Does this mean that one is better than the other? How does AI differentiate and decide for itself what is good and what is bad in art, morals and culture?
To me, art, morals/culture represent the social aspect of intelligence. The internet seems to be speeding up the evolution of social intelligence. (it at least represents, in an immediate and accessible way, the vast differences in opinion and culture that we have on this planet). Do we need to create thousands of AI's to be able to create social intelligence within AI? Would it be a dangerous thing to create a single AI and let it decide? On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]>wrote: > David, > > There must be a fair amount of cog sci/AI analysis of all this - of how > the brain analyses and remembers tunes - and presumably leading theories > (as for vision). Do you or anyone know more here? > > Also, you have noted something of extreme importance, wh. is a lot more > than "a step further". > > OTOH you've been analysing how we recognize the same, general tune in > different, individual renditions. > > OTOH you've pointed out, we also recognize the INDIVIDUAL differences > of/variatiions on the same genre/class - we appreciate the different ways > Davis/Gillespie play as well as that they're playing the same tune. > > Now correct me but isn't the individual dimension of images of all kinds, > almost entirely missing from AI? The capacity to recognize what > makes individuals of a species individual, and not just that they belong to > the same species. Isn't visual object recognition for example almost > entirely focussed on recognizing general objects rather than individual > objects - that that's an example of a general doll, rather than an > individual particularly beaten up, or just slightly and disturbingly altered > doll? > > No doubt AI can recognize individual fingerprints, but it's the capacity to > recognize individuals as variations on the general - to recognize that he > has a particularly sarcastic smile, or she has a particularly lyrical, fluid > walk, or that that tune contrasts harmonious and discordant music (as per > rap) in a distinctive way - that's missing, no? > > > *From:* David Butler <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2010 3:44 PM > *To:* agi <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [agi] How do we hear music > > When we listen to music there are many elements that come into play that > create our memory of how the song goes. If you take a piece of instrumental > music, you have the melody, a succession of tones in a certain order, > duration of each note in the melody, timbre, or tonal quality, (guitar vs > trombone), time, how fast the song is played. Phrasing, what part of the > melody is emphasized using volume, change of tone quality etc... Is the > melody played slurred with all the notes run together or staccato played > with short notes. > > Too take it a step further how do we recognize a solo played by Miles Davis > rather than Dizzy Gillespie playing the same song both on trumpet but sound > completely different in style. How do we recognize when two different > conductors direct the same music with the same orchestra but yet make it > sound different? > > . > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Matt Mahoney <[email protected]>wrote: > >> deepakjnath wrote: >> >> > Why do we listen to a song sung in different scale and yet identify it >> as the same song.? Does it have something to do with the fundamental way in >> which we store memory? >> >> For the same reason that gray looks green on a red background. You have >> more neurons that respond to differences in tones than to absolute >> frequencies. >> >> >> -- Matt Mahoney, [email protected] >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* deepakjnath <[email protected]> >> *To:* agi <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Thu, July 22, 2010 3:59:57 PM >> *Subject:* [agi] How do we hear music >> >> Why do we listen to a song sung in different scale and yet identify it as >> the same song.? Does it have something to do with the fundamental way in >> which we store memory? >> >> cheers, >> Deepak >> *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | >> Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | >> Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=8660244-6e7fb59c Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
