>>> Not to mention that just because someone might have pirated some app >>> at some time, doesn't mean that they pirated your app. >>> That's why it needs to be able to check against Google Checkout or >>> whatever payment processor is used... >> >> Also not to mention how many people buy out-of-contract phones off of eBay >> to toy with new techy stuff. What if someone gets their phone's IMEI >> blacklisted in your database, goes and sells their phone, and someone >> innocent now picks up the phone and finds abruptly they can't use any of the >> apps linked into this antipiracy thing? (And lest you say that wouldn't >> happen, look at how many of the Xbox 360 consoles that have gotten locked >> out of Xbox Live abruptly ended up on eBay, while the folks who got locked >> out go get new consoles. After all, Xbox Live uses similar security >> methods, where the lockout applies to the hardware ID, not merely the >> account.) >> > Tomorrow we will release free application that will help to check is > your phone in "black list" or not. In case when phone was used by > pirate before, you can run this application and check device is it > clean or not. And after that decide buy it or not. Also database is > public and you can in any time ask us about reviewing the "piracy > threat level" for device.
I've almost never seen someone post a phone on eBay with an IMEI. I know the G1 which I snagged off of eBay for testing certainly didn't have that in the listing! More to the point, not all users will be saavy enough to know that they should do this. Maybe they just got a refurbished phone from their provider as a replacement, for instance. Why are they going to necessarily know that they should ask the person at the T-Mobile store for the IMEI, and then a browser to check if that's blocked from running apps or not? Your solution basically assumes two particular data points: 1) that a blacklisted phone was blacklisted by the current user, or that 2) if 1 is not true, the user is tech-saavy enough to deal with finding out that the phone is blacklisted before accepting it (or to know how to get themselves cleared from the blacklist). I dispute these points as being generally true; a lot of the people who fall under #2 and aren't developers themselves are just going to 'why did this app say I was a pirate? I paid for it!' and then leave a 1-star review. For this method to be generally viable, I think there needs to be a /nice, detailed/ explanation of what has happened, and a simple button the user can push to request a review of their blacklisting. (Of course, the problem is then what do you do to stop the pirates from deciding to just endlessly request review of their blacklisting.) I'll admit that I used to be involved in the PC game programming community, where all SORTS of bizarre antipiracy measures have been tried, and many of which have backfired. So my immediate reaction to antipiracy stuff now is to look at the solution and go, 'okay, now, where's the place where this is going to go horribly wrong and lead to bad reviews or screaming users on the forums?' >> This isn't to say that antipiracy methods aren't desirable or useful. Just >> that if they bite /innocent/ users as well, you'll have a headache to deal >> with. Look at how many 'I can't see this app in the market!' threads we >> already have, and how much frustration there is just from developers over >> that. Imagine the users adding to that with 'I paid for this app off the >> store, but when I try to run it claims I pirated it!' >> > > Please read anti-piracy methods carefully on our web-site. By default > all devices have - Green level. If reported 1-3 cases device level > become - Yellow. 3-5 cases - Brown level; more then 5 cases - Red > level. We recommend to stop servicing devices that reach Brown level > limits. Right, but let's say a pirate gets their phone to Brown level. They go, pfft, okay, well, I'll just trade this one for a different refurb, and let the dealer hand this one out again. (Or, "I'll sell it on eBay," etc.) My concern with the system isn't that someone was erroneously listed as a pirate, but that the phone was /correctly/ listed as a pirate, and then traded hands to someone new. >> In general, as a software developer, I tend to think that antipiracy methods >> that allow some pirates through are better than antipiracy methods that >> might flag innocent users as wrongdoers. > > it's completely your choice. You as developer decide do you want to > use it or not. Which is quite fair. I'm just stating the problem I see with using this system as a whole. Pirates are resourceful; they'll find ways around things in the end. (See the comments in this thread about IMEI bombing, or reverse-engineering the system and removing the protection.) My general opinion of protections is that if you have a protection which the determined pirates have the technical ability to get around, but which can bite the non-pirate users, you will alienate users. Look at the SecuROM fiasco; legitimate users couldn't run SecuROM-protected software because of issues with the software flagging them erroneously as pirates or suchnot, while the pirates -- who had copies of the games where they'd stripped out the SecuROM -- actually ended up having a /better/ experience than the legitimate users. That's a particularly extreme example of antipiracy failure, but one which (as someone with ties to the games industry) strikes home rather firmly for me. Users who had SecuROM problems had no recourse, no way to get the game they had legitimately purchased to run, and many became embittered. And oh BOY did game developers hear about that one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SecuROM > But If I were on your place, instead of telling only critics, I will > be bring some creative ideas, how to make anti-piracy system better... > Nothing personal. Make critics is easy, making solutions always harder. No offense taken. I think my general suggestion boils down to 'if you want to go down this path, have a clear, concise, easily-understood way to request a review of a device's inclusion in the blacklist, and be prepared to handle the ensuing workload.' Remember that cell phones /are/ something that often change hands, when people trade in a device for a new one and that original device gets refurbished and handed out again. You cannot assume that a device that has been blacklisted (even legitimately blacklisted) remains in the hands of the original offender indefinitely, or that someone who receives a blacklisted device will be technologically saavy enough to figure out how to get themselves removed from the blacklist without really a really clear procedure to follow. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Developers" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
