On 7 Aug 2007, at 13:08, Mark Aufflick wrote:

tcl is certainly unpopular - (put's on flame retardent suit) - it
doesn't suit structured programming well like, say, ruby and python
Those languages were really only made popular by their use in a hot(- ish) new(-ish) web stack, Tcl could achieve the same.

all layers are easily interchangeable. You can use Apache + MySQL with
Perl, Python or Ruby. You can use Perl/Python/Ruby with Postgresql or
I think that is hitting the nail on the head: "You can use Apache + MySQL...". People think web development and they think Apache, not in the least because that is what every hosting company offers. The language is probably second and depends on what runs well inside Apache. Unfortunately that would be PHP.

I always shake my head when this "lets implement PHP/Ruby/TechDuJour in AOLserver, that will make it popular" comes up. First of all everyone seems to find that only Tcl is any good a threading, so you can't make other languages fit properly. (That said, most languages don't fit well in apache; RoR uses lame forked FastCGI) Secondly, I don't care about the AOLserver HTTP layer. Yes, it is fast but so are other web layers. What makes AOLserver AOLserver is the Tcl API; libraries, ns_db and nsv are what makes it better than anything available on Apache.

Personally, I would prefer it to run in Apache and have someone else maintain the HTTP layer and being able to have easy, stable virtual servers, mod_rewrite, etc. I know AD did a "mod_aolserver" at some point but shoehorning a threaded back-end to a forking server was probably never a good idea to begin with. With Apache 2 knowing a thing or two about threading now it might just work a whole lot better.

I think the tcl coupling - or rather the inability to couple with
other languages easily - is a big problem. Ruby on Rails has shown
I agree, except I think it is the other way around; the inability of the Tcl API to run inside anything else than AOLserver.

Although it would kill AOLserver as a stand-alone product, I think this is a good model:

- AOLserver Tcl API implemented in Apache 2's threaded model.
- Including pretty much all of tcllib in the distribution
- Same for tdom
- create a cool framework. I am not the greatest fan, but they can generate a lot of buzz. A Tcl/ADP clone of WebWork and SiteMesh (http://www.opensymphony.com/) should do fine.

You could just have a content handler for .adp files and a config directive can point to the Tcl lib dir. Registered procedures and ADPs would probably have to be done to in config directives but it being apache, all this could be set in .htaccess files for easy ("untar and call setup.adp") deployment.

Running inside the bloated apache probably won't make it any faster, but it also shouldn't make it unworkably slow at all either. (Yahoo! seems to have embraced PHP for cryin' out loud and they have a page view or two every day...)

Just my 2 cents...


AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/

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