Hi all of you,
I reply myself to explain a bit further. I hesitate if Apertium is the
right tool for the language pair SV-FR. In my opinion, the problems with
the pronouns are the most important.

Some of the problems mentioned in point 3 must have surged when working
on other language pairs:

A.
> ... the genus of the person will decide the genus
> of the pronoun, not the genus of the object like in French. This is a
> bit confusing: "Kalles mamma: hans mamma" would become "La mère de
> Kalle: sa mère" (Kalle's mother: his mother) and "Lisas `pappa: hennes
> pappa" would become "Le père de Lisa: son père" (Lisas father: her
> father).

This applies as well to e.g. the pair FR-EN and possibly to the pair
ES-EN.

B.
> ... The translation of the personal pronoun "lui" will be either
> "honom" (masculine = him) or "henne" (feminine = her).
> ex. "Kalle ringer till henne" (Kalle phones her)= "Kalle lui téléphone" et 
> "Kalle ringer
> till honom" (Kalle phones him) = "Kalle lui téléphone". A translator has to 
> check to whom
> "lui" refers, somewhere above in the text.

This applies as well to e.g. the pair FR-EN and possibly to the pair
ES-EN.

C. 
> ... genders to
> chose between when translating the French personal pronouns as direct
> object (object directe), "le" et "la".
> ex. The boook of Anna Gavalda "Je l'aimé" have the title "Jag älskade
> honom" in Swedish. (I loved him). When I read the book in French I
> thought the title meant "Jag älskade henne" (I loved her). I don't know
> if the translator asked the author. Any how, you will realize that the
> double meaning is essential if you ever read the book.
> An other exemple: "Charles la comprend" = "Kalle förstår det" (He
> understands that) or "Kalle förstår den" (Kalle understands it eg. the
> cat, he's a cat whisperer :-) ) or "Kalle förstår henne" (Kalle
> understands her).

This applies as well to e.g. the pair FR-EN and possibly to the pair
ES-EN.

D.
>...it makes a difference if a possessive pronoun refers to the
> subject or refers to someone else:
> "Kalle älskar sina hundar. Niklas älskar hans hundar." = "Kalle aimes
> ses chiens. Niklas aimes ses chiens." (Kalle loves his dogs. Niklas
> loves his dogs. It's the same dogs, that are kept by Kalle, not by
> Niklas! Same problem in English.)

Someone might have encountered this problem working on e.g. the pair
IS-EN or DA-EN.

So, I am eager to know how you others have tackled these problems, or if
you have decided to ignore them.

Unfortunately, the other problems aren't possible to solve, as far as I
understand. If I haven't overlooked some feature in Apertium.
Or maybe there is a solution for point 5:

> 5. The placement of adjectives. Normally, Swedish adjectives are placed
> before the noun and French adjectives are placed after the noun.
> "Den vita hästen" = "Le cheval blanc"
> 
> But there are some exceptions. Thirst the "BAGS adjectives" treating
> beauty, age, goodness and size.
> ex. "Le petit chien" = "Den lilla hunden"
> 
> Second, in French the meaning might be changed by changing the position
> of the adjective.
> ex. "Ma vieille voiture" = "Min gamla bil" (My old car = I have used it
> for years) et "Cette fois, je vais acheter une voiture nouvelle, et pas
> un voiture d'occasion." = "Den här gången ska jag köpa en ny bil
> (nytillverkad) och inte en begagnad. (This time, I will buy a new (brand
> new) car and not a used car.)

Yours,
Per Tunedal


On Wed, Apr 18, 2012, at 15:07, Per Tunedal wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I have some reflections regarding the pair SV -FR. Unlike Bernard
> Chardonneau I feel that there are considerable differences between the
> two languages. Below I will list a few, perhaps someone has an idea how
> to overcome some of them?
> 
---snip---
> 
> Well, there you have got something to get your teeth into :-)
> 
> Yours,
> Per Tunedal
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to
> monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second 
> resolution app monitoring today. Free.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Apertium-stuff mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second.
Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You.
Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2
_______________________________________________
Apertium-stuff mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff

Reply via email to