Hi Mayur:
The intent of your mission is now abundantly clear. I did not
suspect it in the beginning, thinking it was just another clueless
attempt of an inexperienced but well meaning youth to attempt to
change the lot of the Assamese people. Turns out it is another of
those politically motivated backdoor attempts to demonstrate that
Assam's condition is its own damn fault, that Assam's people are lazy,
emotionally driven, ignorant of business practices ( no doubt
desi-style), uneducated in ways of the modern means of getting rich
quick as in gambling with other people's money by dealing in
derivatives or even equities in an environment where transparency is
absent, so on and so forth.
Now my question is how many people do you think you have fooled,
I mean other than the large contingent of Assam Netters who are
already in your corner :-)?
>It was Assamese people/ Assam.
**** Does not really matter any more, now that your intentions
are clear.
But I do withdraw the 'second division' that I awarded earlier
:-) on the matter of "strengths". But in case of the
"weaknesses", I prefaced my dissection by declaring that it
really does not matter ( see "Even if it did---").
> As you are trying to
>restrict the scope of the debate in stead of enlarging
it,
*** What was your intent? To restrict it or to expand it? To me
both will be
equally devoid of substance.
>I don't know where were you during the turbulent days
>of Assam agitation from 1979 to 1985.
*** Safely ensconced in my air-conditioned office, in a developed
country with a rule of law, if you must know :-). But trust me,
contrary to popular wisdom to the contrary, it does not, in any way,
shape, or form, dilute or discount anything I may have in analyzing
these issues. My locale or condition and deliberations on Assam's
condition are NOT mutually exclusive.
>I am ashamed to say that in an emotional frenzy devoid
of an iota of rationality, majority of the Assamese
people supported (either vociferously or tacitly)the
manhandling of a noted Assamese intellectual in
Guwahati at the hands of the miscreants masquerading
probably as AASU members. Or they may be real AASU
also. This horrendous incident proves whether majority
of us are motivated more by ephemeral emotions or
>solid reasons.
*** But it does not matter where on earth I ( or anybody else for
that matter) might have been when the above happened for anyone to see
immediately that your assessment of the characteristic of the people
of Assam as 'emotional'is absurd. It is an egregious example of
how so many people from the South Asian sub-continent make sweeping
judgements about entire groups of people based on isolated examples or
scanty evidence.
*** What is even more discouraging is your inability to reason
WHY these things happen. But I will give you a break here :-): Tell
us, on second thought, why and how such a sordid event could
take place? And tell us also, where in India such an act could not
have taken place and why?
If you could persuasively address the two, I will have to
re-assess my own dismissal of your argument on the matter.
>But if someone deliberately behaves like an
ostritch putting its head in sands, I can't help it.
*** I think you are taking on far more responsibility for the
behavior and attitudes of your fellow men, than anyone could hold you
responsible for. I know it is a noble gesture, but quite unnecessary.
Perhaps you ought to concentrate on minding the quality your own
arguments in the interest of the people of Assam. After all, if
a lot of people can manage their lives better, it automatically
elevates the conditions of their society.
>As regards the second important point of sense of
terror or tension, it also pertains more to the state
>than to the people.
*** It does? My own perception was that the 'state' is an
abstract notion that is meaningless when you pull the people
out of it. I realize there are very many Indians whose view of the
'state' is little more than the real-estate, the 'maati'. I have seen
it right here in Assam Net, when some of Assam's best have argued as
if the land of Kashmir is nothing more than a piece of
'poitrik-xompotti' ( an ancestral inheritance) with the 'pota' (
title) in India's name, never mind HOW the inhabitants on the ground
who call it home, feel about India's ownership pretensions about it.
Very similarly for Assam too.
But that is not very a thoughtful or intelligent attitude.
>Keeping in view your deep rooted hatred for other
Indians,-----
*** That is an interesting observation. Where did you get that
from,the three Rs of Assam Net ? Or was that a conclusion you derived
with your own observations of my posts in Assam Net in the few weeks
you have been here?
Anyway, I would challenge you (and our three Rusketeers , who
level that charge)
to show anything that I have said, implied or otherwise
demonstrated, that could back-up your charge. But the truth is that
ONLY those who are frustrated in their attempts at defending their
political positions from my assaults, use that charge. It is a
'kaandi-ron-jika tactic" :-), even though it is
unbecoming, considering what could be expected of them. Just like the
Bushies in the USA who slap that 'deep-rooted hatred of GWB' charge on
their fellow citizens who dare to question or criticize their
leader.
Having said that, I would not hesitate to admit for a moment
that I have absolutely no qualms about criticizing and
denouncing Indian policies and attitudes that have harmed not only
Assam's interests, but also its own people elsewhere in India.
However, only the inferentially challenged or the malicious would make
the jump to equate that to my"--deep rooted hatred for other
Indians-->"
In case you have missed it, there is a fine but critical
distinction between criticism of governmental policies and hatred for
the people whose govt. it is.It would behoove people like yourself
to be aware of such nuances. I realize though that even highly trained
desis with many degrees from elite institutions and even with years in
'phoren lands' are unable to grasp such finer differences.I just hope
people of your generation can overcome such obstacles to raise your
society to a higher level of sophistry.
>There is no denying the fact that some of the
points raised by insurgent groups are pertinent and
valid. But does that justify the mindless violence
>they are perpetrating on the innocent people ?
*** You are a fair man to acknowledge the former. And I cannot
challenge your aversion to the latter even if tried.
Questions are:
I would like to hear from you on these. More so because I
know you are an intelligent and articulate young man. If you could not
answer that, or do not want to answer that, I don't know who we could
count on ?
>But the most unfortunate aspect is that a section of the so called
>intelligentsia see terror only in respect of army or police
and not for the >ultras.
*** Again same question: What came first? Are you aware of
the events that preceded the birth of the insurgency? If you are, are
you deliberately avoiding it? If you are, you are being dishonest. You
should know that would never persuade anyone willing to exercise their
intellects.
Secondly, do you think or believe that the 'terror' of the police
and the armed forces are either false or exaggerated or
inconsequential or out of bounds in the discussions? If these
'so-called intelligentsia'
( obviously they are spurious to you) did not raise them, who
would? The true intelligentsia, the just, fair and
even-handed ones like yourself :-)?
A word of advice here: when you resort to this kind of
spin,playing with words, you will lose whatever credibility you
might have come with. So, if I were you, I would respect the
intelligence of the people here. I know there are those who are on
your side. But you don't need to preach to the choir. You ought to be
making an effort to bring new ideas, creative ways to solve the
problems Assam faces. And that, unfortunately, is not compatible with
attempting to preserve Assam as a colony for India, never mind that
YOU or others in your shoes, made it, even under those same
conditions. Exceptions don't make the rule in this case.
>Nobody bothers now about the innocent victims and their relatives of
>Dhemaji blast of 15 August 2004.
*** Nobody does? Is that a fact, or did you make that up to
advance your political agenda? Or are you being careless with
words?
And by the same taken how many from the ranks of the loyal
establishment, like yourself for example, care about the families of
the ten thousand plus Assamese killed by the Indian army, CRPF, Assam
police and state sponsored assassins?
Do they count? Or should they be swepyt under the rug,
unceremoniously, with labels, words and phrases like 'insurgent',
'suspected ULFA', 'death in custody', 'encounter death' -- ad
nauseum?
If you cannot differentiate then your attempts here would carry
little credibility. You would be yet another hack, attempting to
insult the intelligence of a lot of people.
> It may make some difference to you or me who are safely sitting at a
>distance and trying to popularise their own poits of
>views. One who wears the shoe knows where it pinches.
**** It requires credibility to preach, as long as there is more
to the congregation than the choir. And cliche's and truisms rarely
prove a point, when context is discarded.
>Let us not pretend that >we know better.
*** I think you need to speak for yourself here. I do know
better and thus not a part of your WE :-).
>Mahanta da, intellectual arrogance very often deprives
>a person of courage and ability to accept his own
mistakes.
*** Uh-huh! OK! I told you Mayur, I am not much for them
philosophical sounding stuff or quotes from 'wise-people' that us
desis are so fond of throwing around. So what are you driving at ?
What exactly do you consider 'intellectual arrogance' in my arguments
here? And what are MY mistakes that I refuse to accept? You will
need to spell them out, otherwise they go right over my head. That
will be wasting a lot of bandwidth, if you know what I mean?
>By no stretch of imagination, I support the Indian State in
respect of its >treatment to North East
*** Why Mayur? I might believe you, if you could articulate a few
reasons. Otherwise it would be just another of those phony attempts
at 'balance' that we see here so often.
>--- but I ail to understand your animosity towards
common Indian people.
**** Tsk, tsk! My heart goes out for your love of the common
Indian. But charity begins at home. If you could have demonstrated the
same empathy for the common Oxomiya, your concern for the
'common Indian' might have looked good, even noble. But at the moment
it sounds phonier than a thirty-rupee note :-).
But your befuddlement over my "animosity towards common
Indian people" is a product of your own imaginations, not
because of what I might have said, insinuated,done or nurse in those
deep, dark and shadowy crevices of my heart :-).
Hope that addresses your questions and comments. I too would be
looking forward to a response with answers to my
questions.
Best to you,
cm
At 12:58 AM -0700 9/18/05, mayur bora wrote:
Dear Mahanta da,
It's good that you have opened the chapter. You seem
to have missed or deliberately overlooked the heading
before the strengths. It was Assamese people/ Assam.
Some strengths, as the heading more than adequately
signifies, pertain to our state. As you are trying to
restrict the scope of the debate in stead of enlarging
it, it did not surprise me at all that you missed it.
Any way, thanks for giving 2nd division to me.
I don't know where were you during the turbulent days
of Assam agitation from 1979 to 1985. As an Assamese,
I am ashamed to say that in an emotional frenzy devoid
of an iota of rationality, majority of the Assamese
people supported (either vociferously or tacitly)the
manhandling of a noted Assamese intellectual in
Guwahati at the hands of the miscreants masquerading
probably as AASU members. Or they may be real AASU
also. This horrendous incident proves whether majority
of us are motivated more by ephemeral emotions or
solid reasons.It is absolutely normal to have
emotions, but to be solely guided by emotions can have
disastrous ramifications as we have seen in case of
Assam. But if someone deliberately behaves like an
ostritch putting its head in sands, I can't help it.
As regards the second important point of sense of
terror or tension, it also pertains more to the state
than to the people. Keeping in view your deep rooted
hatred for other Indians, I am accepting for the time
being that whatever is happening in Assam is the
effect of something which is not under their
control.There is no denying the fact that some of the
points raised by insurgent groups are pertinent and
valid. But does that justify the mindless violence
they are perpetrating on the innocent people ? Any
right thinking citizen should condemn their activities
in the strongest possible terms. But the most
unfortunate aspect is that a section of the so called
intelligentsia see terror only in respect of army or
police and not for the ultras. Their obvious objective
is to lionise a few leaders and romanticise their
activities. But behind this objective, lies their main
objective of satisfying their own vested interests.
Ram was right in his opinion that the attention
received by the ultras is directly proportional to the
degree of violence they can indulge in. Nobody bothers
now about the innocent victims and their relatives of
Dhemaji blast of 15 August 2004.Tell me one good
effect of rise of insurgency in the state. This
dangerous tendency is observed with many of the so
called human rights organisations also. Let us not try
to draw a line between human rights violations at the
hands of the state and the insurgents. For the victim,
does it make any difference ? It may make some
difference to you or me who are safely sitting at a
distance and trying to popularise their own poits of
views. One who wears the shoe knows where it pinches.
Let us not pretend that we know better.
Mahanta da, intellectual arrogance very often deprives
a person of courage and ability to accept his own
mistakes.His main intention becomes only to defend his
views, come what may.Let us not fall in that category.
By no stretch of imagination, I support the Indian
State in respect of its treatment to North East, but I
fail to understand your animosity towards common
Indian people. Is it not an accident that we were born
on that side ?
Looking forward to your response.
bye for the time being.
Mayur
Chandigarh
--- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mayur:
>
> I was hoping that I did not have to open this
> chapter. I avoided
> getting into it it in my first response. But since
> you are not
> convinced, I am forced into it :-).
>
> First off, congratulations on your perceptiveness in
> starting off
> with all those nice qualities of the Assamese
> People, the STRENGTHS
> as you characterize them.
> Always a good idea to preface bad news with good,
> however tenuous.
> Trouble is, if they are not very convincing, the
> whole show falls
> apart:
>
> Of the ten (good round number) "Strengths of the
> Assamese People" below,
> 2,5,6,8 and 9 have nothing to do with the qualities
> of the Assamese
> people at all. You are scoring 50% if it were to be
> an essay writing
> exercise in grade school, that is a barely a second
> div., if that
> high :-).
>
> Now let us examine the 'weaknesses':
>
> Of the 18 at least 7 have nothing to do with the
> qualities of the
> Assamese people. But even if they did let us see
> what these mean, and
> how you might use these to weigh the ethnic
> qualities of the people.
> I will just take one or two as examples. Hopefully
> you will get the
> idea.
>
>
> > >2. Emotions getting precedence over logic in the
> minds
> >of the people
>
>
> **** How would you place yourself in this
> characteristic that you see
> as a predominant in the Assamese people? Do you
> consider yourself
> more rational/logical than emotional? If not, then
> you are an
> EXCEPTION, one who is above the rest. I have no
> problem believing
> that. But I want to hear it from YOU.
>
> And how would you rate all the Assamese people you
> know well enough
> to judge them--family members, close friends,
> teachers, relatives,
> servants etc. etc? You must not use examples of
> newspaper accounts,
> or anecdotes, or hearsay etc. What percentage of
> them will you
> consider emotionally driven as opposed to being
> rational/logical? It
> is important here that you consider the person's
> entire record you
> are aware of, not merely some incident or episode,
> however
> significant that might be. Because we do not judge
> people on account
> of one or a few incidents, but on the entirety of
> their personnae.
>
> How would you rate the various people who have
> posted in Assam Net
> since you joined it? Feel free to name them if you
> wish. That will be
> helpful in judging your own evaluating skills :-).
>
> Based upon the above, assuming these groups of
> people above are a
> fair representation of the entirety of kharkhowadom,
> how does your
> assessment stand?
>
>
> > >7. All pervasive feeling of tension and terror
> in
> >>different parts of the state
>
>
>
> **** Do you consider this a characteristic of the
> Assamese people? If
> you do why? Is it a genetic or hereditary condition?
> Or is it a
> response to certain conditions prevailing in
> society?
>
> And if it is the latter, if it is an EFFECT, not a
> CAUSE, as Mukul
> Mahanta pointed out in the very similar item #6,
> what do you think
> are the CAUSES? Are they genetic Assamese
> abnormalities that caused
> it? Or are they caused by societal factors under
> their CONTROL? Or
> are they caused by forces outside their control?
>
> Whatever your assessment, will you please outline
> and explain them as
> you see them?
>
> And based on the above how would you assess your
> judgement that it is
> a WEAKNESS of the Assamese people?
>
>
>
> I hope by now you have caught my drift and further
> dissecting would
> not be necessary :-).
>
> Take care,
>
> cm
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 10:17 AM -0700 9/13/05, mayur bora wrote:
> >Dear Friends,
> >
> >I am new to the mailing list of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Some of the debates among the netizens on issues
> >concerning Assam are really interesting. I am sure
> we
> >would be able to provide a new perspective on some
> >issues in respect of Assam with the help of our
> >collective wisdom. One of the most important issues
> >crossing my mind is to find out the relative
> strengths
> >and weaknesses of Assamese people in relation to
> other
> >people of India. I am trying to list below the
> >strengths and weaknesses of Assamese people and
> >solicit your opinion on that. I am using the word
> >Assanese in a broad sense encompassing all those
> >people whose mother tongue may not be Assamese, but
> >they have some concern for the state. Moreover the
> >traits indicated below are general in nature and
> >exceptions are not ruled out. The objective of this
> >exercise is to find out whether our weaknesses
> >outweigh the strengths resulting in the current
> >condition of the state vis a vis other states of
> the
> >country.
> >
> >Strength of Assamese People / Assam
> >
> >1. Diverse and rich literary and cultural
> traditions
> >
> >2. Favourable climatic condition
> >
> >3. Healthy and relatively spice less cuisine
> >
> >4. Great hospitality and relative simplicity of
> people
> >
> >5. Fertile land
> >
> >6. Rich flora and fauna
> >
> >8. Major producer of tea and oil
> >
> >9. Tremendous tourism potential
> >
> >10. Absence of dowry
> >
> >Weaknesses
> >
> >1. Alienation of tribal people from the mainstream
> due
> >to the cavalier attitude shown by caste Hindu
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________ assam mailing list [email protected] http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
