Yes I did Otherwise he would not have landed in the vines. On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:45 PM, Paul Bart <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Yes, but when they coined that impressive phrase, they assumed that the > facts used would be relevant. Unless you actually know what happened to the > glider you are just guessing and "the facts" put forward may be entirely > irrelevant to what happened. Whilst you have said the the pilot can speak > for himself, you then went ahead and suggested that he was low on approach. > > Cheers > > Paul > On 1 Mar 2016 21:29, "Peter Champness" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> "Anyway after looking at Google Earth and the TV footage I don't think >> we're talking about a misjudged skinny final glide in this case." >> >> Disagree! Adelaide doctor can answer for himself. >> >> The approach to Waikerie airfield from the North involves; >> 1, crossing the river, >> 2. an up slope of 100 ft or more from the river. >> 3. vineyards before the airfield boundary, >> 4. powerlines. >> 5. runway is uphill. >> >> Glider landed in the vines. The legal phase (sometimes used in medical >> cases) is "res ipse loquitor" - the facts speek for themselves. >> >> Peter Champness >> >> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Mike Borgelt < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I was trying to figure out what you were getting at. I use a glide >>> computer, not the Mark 1 eyeball for final glides. If you are going to do >>> really skinny final glides it better be one you are familiar with and a >>> glider you are familiar with. >>> I'm also very conservative and while I've taken the risk of having an >>> outlanding in order to gain contest points I've never knowingly risked my >>> life by going where I couldn't reasonably get to a suitable landing area. >>> I've been fortunate to have an outstanding crew who can drive and navigate >>> and a good trailer so de-rigging is a simple 5 minute operation. Running >>> into a rabbit hole in the paddock is just the luck of the draw. In 63 for >>> real paddock landings the worst damage was a flat main tyre.(there's an >>> interesting story - don't land out on the highest ground for about 100 km >>> around - and eagles climb better than gliders) >>> >>> Anyway after looking at Google Earth and the TV footage I don't think >>> we're talking about a misjudged skinny final glide in this case. YMMV (Your >>> Mileage May Vary). Then again we may never get to know and speculation is >>> all we have. >>> It doesn't do any harm BTW. We have a broken glider and pilot and it can >>> be a great learning experience to figure out how this MIGHT have happened. >>> Trusting officialdom to come up with the truth is fraught. I know of one >>> GFA accident investigation that was totally FUBAR because of faulty logic >>> and lack of understanding of the characteristics of the instrumentation >>> relied upon. >>> The ATSB was brought into being because, quite rightly, it was perceived >>> that the regulator would never find fault with its own rules and procedures >>> even when they were contributory. The GFA investigates itself. >>> Does anyone know what really happened at Ararat nearly 4 years ago? Like >>> how many hours did the instructor have? How many solo? How many >>> instructing? How many last 12 months, last 90 days? The US NTSB would let >>> you know. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> At 06:13 PM 3/1/2016, you wrote: >>> >>>> Possibly of interest Mike. >>>> >>>> Can you enlarge on this comment. Do you mean open the dive brakes 10 >>>> km for the Airfield and make an off field landing, as I have suggested? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Mike Borgelt <<mailto: >>>> [email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: >>>> I thought that's what dive brakes were for. >>>> >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At 10:12 AM 3/1/2016, you wrote: >>>> >>>>> There have been quite a few accidents in recent years due to >>>>> misjudging the approach to landing and undershooting. >>>>> >>>>> Clearly if the angle of approach seems too low a pilot will take >>>>> option B and make an outlanding. It is probably much easier to see >>>>> this >>>>> in a short wing Kookaburra than it is in a 50:1 glider.  In a high >>>>> performance glider the difference between a safe approach and a marginal >>>>> one is about 1 degree. Worse still if the area adjacent to the runway >>>>> is unlandable and hence the outlanding decision must be taken quite a way >>>>> from the airfield.   >>>>> >>>>> Hence when flying a modern glider it is probably a good idea to add an >>>>> additional safety margin >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 10:12 PM, Gary Stevenson <<mailto: >>>>> [email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Hello Bob, >>>>> Good to see you in print again. >>>>>  >>>>> For newer members to our sport, Let me say that Bob has “been >>>>> there and done that†in reference to most elements of our sport. OOn >>>>> this >>>>> particular aspect of our sport ..... yep he has  â€ÅÅ“ been there and >>>>> done that†too, having looked Death in the eye after he had a nassty >>>>> landing discussion with a fence. >>>>>  >>>>> Again for newer members, I have attached what is perhaps the seminal >>>>> article (1993), on this subject, by a guy named Bruno Gantenbrink, (now >>>>> another old fogey). However he was not always an old fogey, and you might >>>>> be a bit surprised at some of the tricks he got up to! >>>>>  >>>>> I noted Richard Frawley’s one line comment nt with some surprise: >>>>> Totally irrelevant here, but it could be the basis of a new thread: >>>>> However >>>>> I expect that this topic has already been done to death, so is not new. >>>>>  >>>>> Regards. >>>>> Gary >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>> From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:[email protected]] >>>>> On Behalf Of Bob Ward >>>>> Sent: Monday, 29 February 2016 7:43 PM >>>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >>>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV >>>>>  >>>>> If Peter Cesco with his myriad experience does not know that gliding >>>>> is many times more dangerous than the drive to the airport, then I am >>>>> truly >>>>> amazed. In my forty nine years continuous participation with the sport, I >>>>> can now count thirteen people I knew who have perished whilst perusing >>>>> gliding. Two of these were members of my own club, and several were >>>>> competition associates. >>>>> I do not have any answer as to how we promote our sport if we are >>>>> honest and face up to the fact that it is essentially “œbloody >>>>> dangerous†. This is of course a dilemma facing the GFA and individuals >>>>> or groups trying to promote our sport. However I cringe when I hear glider >>>>> pilots try to perpetuate the old myth “the most t dangerous part of >>>>> gliding is the drive to the airport†>>>>> Otherwise I agree that Peter’s TV spot was as a creditable >>>>> performance. >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> Bob Ward >>>>>  >>>>> From: <mailto:[email protected]>Glenn McLean >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 6:04 PM >>>>> To: <mailto:[email protected]>Discussion of issues >>>>> relating to Soaring in Australia. >>>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV >>>>>  >>>>> Thanks David. >>>>> Glenn >>>>> On 2/29/2016 6:41 PM, David Holmes wrote: >>>>> >>>>> HI Glen >>>>>  >>>>> Is this what you want? >>>>>  >>>>> >>>>> < >>>>> http://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/2016-nsw-state-championships-lake-keepit-gld-2016/results >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/2016-nsw-state-championships-lake-keepit-gld-2016/results >>>>> >>>>> < >>>>> http://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/2016-nsw-state-championships-lake-keepit-gld-2016/results>Soaring >>>>> Spot :: 2016 NSW State Championships >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.soaringspot.com>www.soaringspot.com >>>>> Lake Keepit Gld, Australia, 27 February 2016 – 5 March 2016 ... >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>> >>>>> David >>>>>  >>>>> ---------- >>>>> From: Aus-soaring <mailto:[email protected] >>>>> >mailto:[email protected] on behalf of Glenn >>>>> McLean <mailto:[email protected]>mailto:[email protected] >>>>> Sent: Monday, 29 February 2016 6:34 PM >>>>> To: <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV >>>>>  >>>>> Hi Derek, >>>>> Any idea on how to access info about the NSW State Comps? I looked at >>>>> the keepit website and it goes nowhere. >>>>> Regards >>>>> Glenn >>>>> On 2/29/2016 4:29 PM, Derek wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Any idea why he didn’t land on the clear strip jp just to the right? >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>> From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:[email protected]] >>>>> On Behalf Of Mark Newton >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 1:54 PM >>>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >>>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV >>>>>  >>>>> On Feb 29, 2016, at 1:50 PM, Anthony Smith <<mailto: >>>>> [email protected]> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>  >>>>> Which show was it on? >>>>> >>>>>  >>>>> >>>>> < >>>>> https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/30949880/adelaide-doctor-recovering-in-hospital-after-glider-crash/#page1 >>>>> > >>>>> https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/30949880/adelaide-doctor-recovering-in-hospital-after-glider-crash/#page1 >>>>>  >>>>>   - mark >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> Aus-soaring mailing >>>>> >>>>> list >>>>> >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>>  >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> Aus-soaring mailing >>>>> >>>>> list >>>>> >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>>  >>>>> >>>>> ---------- >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>> >>>> >>>> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring >>>> instrumentation since 1978 >>>> <http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/>www.borgeltinstruments.com >>>> tel:  07 4635 5784     overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 >>>> mob: 042835 5784                : int+61-42835 5784 >>>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> >>> >>> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring >>> instrumentation since 1978 >>> www.borgeltinstruments.com >>> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 >>> mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 >>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > >
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