It would seem the Ararat one a good rule of thumb from Frank Deeth is "straight ahead to hospital or left or right to the cemetery" Ian McPhee On 1 Mar 2016 11:22 pm, "Peter Champness" <plchampn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *'Does anyone know what really happened at Ararat nearly 4 years ago?''* > > *Yes we do know what happened.* Why try to hide it? > > There was an aerotow incident, The rope went slack. They released at low > altitude. There was a safe landing ahead. Maurice Little did a turn back > to the airfield at low altitude. The glider stalled in a tun and crashed > Both student and instructor were killed. > > The rules are clear. Land ahead if possible. > > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Mike Borgelt < > mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote: > >> I was trying to figure out what you were getting at. I use a glide >> computer, not the Mark 1 eyeball for final glides. If you are going to do >> really skinny final glides it better be one you are familiar with and a >> glider you are familiar with. >> I'm also very conservative and while I've taken the risk of having an >> outlanding in order to gain contest points I've never knowingly risked my >> life by going where I couldn't reasonably get to a suitable landing area. >> I've been fortunate to have an outstanding crew who can drive and navigate >> and a good trailer so de-rigging is a simple 5 minute operation. Running >> into a rabbit hole in the paddock is just the luck of the draw. In 63 for >> real paddock landings the worst damage was a flat main tyre.(there's an >> interesting story - don't land out on the highest ground for about 100 km >> around - and eagles climb better than gliders) >> >> Anyway after looking at Google Earth and the TV footage I don't think >> we're talking about a misjudged skinny final glide in this case. YMMV (Your >> Mileage May Vary). Then again we may never get to know and speculation is >> all we have. >> It doesn't do any harm BTW. We have a broken glider and pilot and it can >> be a great learning experience to figure out how this MIGHT have happened. >> Trusting officialdom to come up with the truth is fraught. I know of one >> GFA accident investigation that was totally FUBAR because of faulty logic >> and lack of understanding of the characteristics of the instrumentation >> relied upon. >> The ATSB was brought into being because, quite rightly, it was perceived >> that the regulator would never find fault with its own rules and procedures >> even when they were contributory. The GFA investigates itself. >> Does anyone know what really happened at Ararat nearly 4 years ago? Like >> how many hours did the instructor have? How many solo? How many >> instructing? How many last 12 months, last 90 days? The US NTSB would let >> you know. >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> At 06:13 PM 3/1/2016, you wrote: >> >>> Possibly of interest Mike. >>> >>> Can you enlarge on this comment. Do you mean open the dive brakes 10 >>> km for the Airfield and make an off field landing, as I have suggested? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Mike Borgelt <<mailto: >>> mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote: >>> I thought that's what dive brakes were for. >>> >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> At 10:12 AM 3/1/2016, you wrote: >>> >>>> There have been quite a few accidents in recent years due to misjudging >>>> the approach to landing and undershooting. >>>> >>>> Clearly if the angle of approach seems too low a pilot will take option >>>> B and make an outlanding. It is probably much easier to see this in a >>>> short wing Kookaburra than it is in a 50:1 glider.  In a high >>>> performance glider the difference between a safe approach and a marginal >>>> one is about 1 degree. Worse still if the area adjacent to the runway >>>> is unlandable and hence the outlanding decision must be taken quite a way >>>> from the airfield.   >>>> >>>> Hence when flying a modern glider it is probably a good idea to add an >>>> additional safety margin >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 10:12 PM, Gary Stevenson <<mailto: >>>> gstev...@bigpond.com>gstev...@bigpond.com> wrote: >>>> Hello Bob, >>>> Good to see you in print again. >>>>  >>>> For newer members to our sport, Let me say that Bob has “been >>>> there and done that†in reference to most elements of our sport. OOn this >>>> particular aspect of our sport ..... yep he has  â€ÅÅ“ been there and >>>> done that†too, having looked Death in the eye after he had a nassty >>>> landing discussion with a fence. >>>>  >>>> Again for newer members, I have attached what is perhaps the seminal >>>> article (1993), on this subject, by a guy named Bruno Gantenbrink, (now >>>> another old fogey). However he was not always an old fogey, and you might >>>> be a bit surprised at some of the tricks he got up to! >>>>  >>>> I noted Richard Frawley’s one line comment nt with some surprise: >>>> Totally irrelevant here, but it could be the basis of a new thread: However >>>> I expect that this topic has already been done to death, so is not new. >>>>  >>>> Regards. >>>> Gary >>>>  >>>>  >>>> From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On >>>> Behalf Of Bob Ward >>>> Sent: Monday, 29 February 2016 7:43 PM >>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV >>>>  >>>> If Peter Cesco with his myriad experience does not know that gliding is >>>> many times more dangerous than the drive to the airport, then I am truly >>>> amazed. In my forty nine years continuous participation with the sport, I >>>> can now count thirteen people I knew who have perished whilst perusing >>>> gliding. Two of these were members of my own club, and several were >>>> competition associates. >>>> I do not have any answer as to how we promote our sport if we are >>>> honest and face up to the fact that it is essentially “œbloody >>>> dangerous†. This is of course a dilemma facing the GFA and individuals >>>> or groups trying to promote our sport. However I cringe when I hear glider >>>> pilots try to perpetuate the old myth “the most t dangerous part of >>>> gliding is the drive to the airport†>>>> Otherwise I agree that Peter’s TV spot was as a creditable >>>> performance. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Bob Ward >>>>  >>>> From: <mailto:glenn...@bigpond.com>Glenn McLean >>>> Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 6:04 PM >>>> To: <mailto:aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>Discussion of issues >>>> relating to Soaring in Australia. >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV >>>>  >>>> Thanks David. >>>> Glenn >>>> On 2/29/2016 6:41 PM, David Holmes wrote: >>>> >>>> HI Glen >>>>  >>>> Is this what you want? >>>>  >>>> >>>> < >>>> http://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/2016-nsw-state-championships-lake-keepit-gld-2016/results >>>> > >>>> http://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/2016-nsw-state-championships-lake-keepit-gld-2016/results >>>> >>>> < >>>> http://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/2016-nsw-state-championships-lake-keepit-gld-2016/results>Soaring >>>> Spot :: 2016 NSW State Championships >>>> >>>> <http://www.soaringspot.com>www.soaringspot.com >>>> Lake Keepit Gld, Australia, 27 February 2016 – 5 March 2016 ... >>>>  >>>>  >>>>  >>>> Kind Regards, >>>> >>>> David >>>>  >>>> ---------- >>>> From: Aus-soaring <mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au >>>> >mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au on behalf of Glenn >>>> McLean <mailto:glenn...@bigpond.com>mailto:glenn...@bigpond.com >>>> Sent: Monday, 29 February 2016 6:34 PM >>>> To: <mailto:aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au> >>>> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV >>>>  >>>> Hi Derek, >>>> Any idea on how to access info about the NSW State Comps? I looked at >>>> the keepit website and it goes nowhere. >>>> Regards >>>> Glenn >>>> On 2/29/2016 4:29 PM, Derek wrote: >>>> >>>> Any idea why he didn’t land on the clear strip jp just to the right? >>>>  >>>>  >>>> From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On >>>> Behalf Of Mark Newton >>>> Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 1:54 PM >>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV >>>>  >>>> On Feb 29, 2016, at 1:50 PM, Anthony Smith <<mailto: >>>> anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net> anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>  >>>> Which show was it on? >>>> >>>>  >>>> >>>> < >>>> https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/30949880/adelaide-doctor-recovering-in-hospital-after-glider-crash/#page1 >>>> > >>>> https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/30949880/adelaide-doctor-recovering-in-hospital-after-glider-crash/#page1 >>>>  >>>>   - mark >>>>  >>>>  >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Aus-soaring mailing >>>> >>>> list >>>> >>>> <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au> >>>> >>>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>  >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Aus-soaring mailing >>>> >>>> list >>>> >>>> <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au> >>>> >>>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>  >>>> >>>> ---------- >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>> <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>> <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>> <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> >>> >>> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring >>> instrumentation since 1978 >>> <http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/>www.borgeltinstruments.com >>> tel:  07 4635 5784     overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 >>> mob: 042835 5784                : int+61-42835 5784 >>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> >> >> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring >> instrumentation since 1978 >> www.borgeltinstruments.com >> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 >> mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 >> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia >> _______________________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > >
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