*'Does anyone know what really happened at Ararat nearly 4 years ago?''* *Yes we do know what happened.* Why try to hide it?
There was an aerotow incident, The rope went slack. They released at low altitude. There was a safe landing ahead. Maurice Little did a turn back to the airfield at low altitude. The glider stalled in a tun and crashed Both student and instructor were killed. The rules are clear. Land ahead if possible. On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Mike Borgelt < [email protected]> wrote: > I was trying to figure out what you were getting at. I use a glide > computer, not the Mark 1 eyeball for final glides. If you are going to do > really skinny final glides it better be one you are familiar with and a > glider you are familiar with. > I'm also very conservative and while I've taken the risk of having an > outlanding in order to gain contest points I've never knowingly risked my > life by going where I couldn't reasonably get to a suitable landing area. > I've been fortunate to have an outstanding crew who can drive and navigate > and a good trailer so de-rigging is a simple 5 minute operation. Running > into a rabbit hole in the paddock is just the luck of the draw. In 63 for > real paddock landings the worst damage was a flat main tyre.(there's an > interesting story - don't land out on the highest ground for about 100 km > around - and eagles climb better than gliders) > > Anyway after looking at Google Earth and the TV footage I don't think > we're talking about a misjudged skinny final glide in this case. YMMV (Your > Mileage May Vary). Then again we may never get to know and speculation is > all we have. > It doesn't do any harm BTW. We have a broken glider and pilot and it can > be a great learning experience to figure out how this MIGHT have happened. > Trusting officialdom to come up with the truth is fraught. I know of one > GFA accident investigation that was totally FUBAR because of faulty logic > and lack of understanding of the characteristics of the instrumentation > relied upon. > The ATSB was brought into being because, quite rightly, it was perceived > that the regulator would never find fault with its own rules and procedures > even when they were contributory. The GFA investigates itself. > Does anyone know what really happened at Ararat nearly 4 years ago? Like > how many hours did the instructor have? How many solo? How many > instructing? How many last 12 months, last 90 days? The US NTSB would let > you know. > > Mike > > > > > At 06:13 PM 3/1/2016, you wrote: > >> Possibly of interest Mike. >> >> Can you enlarge on this comment. Do you mean open the dive brakes 10 km >> for the Airfield and make an off field landing, as I have suggested? >> >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Mike Borgelt <<mailto: >> [email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: >> I thought that's what dive brakes were for. >> >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At 10:12 AM 3/1/2016, you wrote: >> >>> There have been quite a few accidents in recent years due to misjudging >>> the approach to landing and undershooting. >>> >>> Clearly if the angle of approach seems too low a pilot will take option >>> B and make an outlanding. It is probably much easier to see this in a >>> short wing Kookaburra than it is in a 50:1 glider.  In a high >>> performance glider the difference between a safe approach and a marginal >>> one is about 1 degree. Worse still if the area adjacent to the runway >>> is unlandable and hence the outlanding decision must be taken quite a way >>> from the airfield.   >>> >>> Hence when flying a modern glider it is probably a good idea to add an >>> additional safety margin >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 10:12 PM, Gary Stevenson <<mailto: >>> [email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: >>> Hello Bob, >>> Good to see you in print again. >>>  >>> For newer members to our sport, Let me say that Bob has “been there >>> and done that†in reference to most elements of our sport. OOn this >>> particular aspect of our sport ..... yep he has  â€ÅÅ“ been there and >>> done that†too, having looked Death in the eye after he had a nassty >>> landing discussion with a fence. >>>  >>> Again for newer members, I have attached what is perhaps the seminal >>> article (1993), on this subject, by a guy named Bruno Gantenbrink, (now >>> another old fogey). However he was not always an old fogey, and you might >>> be a bit surprised at some of the tricks he got up to! >>>  >>> I noted Richard Frawley’s one line comment nt with some surprise: >>> Totally irrelevant here, but it could be the basis of a new thread: However >>> I expect that this topic has already been done to death, so is not new. >>>  >>> Regards. >>> Gary >>>  >>>  >>> From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:[email protected]] On >>> Behalf Of Bob Ward >>> Sent: Monday, 29 February 2016 7:43 PM >>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV >>>  >>> If Peter Cesco with his myriad experience does not know that gliding is >>> many times more dangerous than the drive to the airport, then I am truly >>> amazed. In my forty nine years continuous participation with the sport, I >>> can now count thirteen people I knew who have perished whilst perusing >>> gliding. Two of these were members of my own club, and several were >>> competition associates. >>> I do not have any answer as to how we promote our sport if we are honest >>> and face up to the fact that it is essentially “œbloody dangerous†. >>> This is of course a dilemma facing the GFA and individuals or groups trying >>> to promote our sport. However I cringe when I hear glider pilots try to >>> perpetuate the old myth “the most t dangerous part of gliding is the >>> drive to the airport†>>> Otherwise I agree that Peter’s TV spot was as a creditable >>> performance. >>> >>> Regards >>> Bob Ward >>>  >>> From: <mailto:[email protected]>Glenn McLean >>> Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 6:04 PM >>> To: <mailto:[email protected]>Discussion of issues >>> relating to Soaring in Australia. >>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV >>>  >>> Thanks David. >>> Glenn >>> On 2/29/2016 6:41 PM, David Holmes wrote: >>> >>> HI Glen >>>  >>> Is this what you want? >>>  >>> >>> < >>> http://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/2016-nsw-state-championships-lake-keepit-gld-2016/results >>> > >>> http://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/2016-nsw-state-championships-lake-keepit-gld-2016/results >>> >>> < >>> http://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/2016-nsw-state-championships-lake-keepit-gld-2016/results>Soaring >>> Spot :: 2016 NSW State Championships >>> >>> <http://www.soaringspot.com>www.soaringspot.com >>> Lake Keepit Gld, Australia, 27 February 2016 – 5 March 2016 ... >>>  >>>  >>>  >>> Kind Regards, >>> >>> David >>>  >>> ---------- >>> From: Aus-soaring <mailto:[email protected] >>> >mailto:[email protected] on behalf of Glenn >>> McLean <mailto:[email protected]>mailto:[email protected] >>> Sent: Monday, 29 February 2016 6:34 PM >>> To: <mailto:[email protected]> >>> [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV >>>  >>> Hi Derek, >>> Any idea on how to access info about the NSW State Comps? I looked at >>> the keepit website and it goes nowhere. >>> Regards >>> Glenn >>> On 2/29/2016 4:29 PM, Derek wrote: >>> >>> Any idea why he didn’t land on the clear strip jp just to the right? >>>  >>>  >>> From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:[email protected]] On >>> Behalf Of Mark Newton >>> Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 1:54 PM >>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV >>>  >>> On Feb 29, 2016, at 1:50 PM, Anthony Smith <<mailto: >>> [email protected]> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>  >>> Which show was it on? >>> >>>  >>> >>> < >>> https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/30949880/adelaide-doctor-recovering-in-hospital-after-glider-crash/#page1 >>> > >>> https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/30949880/adelaide-doctor-recovering-in-hospital-after-glider-crash/#page1 >>>  >>>   - mark >>>  >>>  >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Aus-soaring mailing >>> >>> list >>> >>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>  >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Aus-soaring mailing >>> >>> list >>> >>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>  >>> >>> ---------- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> >> >> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring >> instrumentation since 1978 >> <http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/>www.borgeltinstruments.com >> tel:  07 4635 5784     overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 >> mob: 042835 5784                : int+61-42835 5784 >> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >> > > Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring > instrumentation since 1978 > www.borgeltinstruments.com > tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 > mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 > P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >
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