One low cost step toward improving the gliding "product" would be
to make GPC holders responsible for their own flying instead of relying on a L2
instructor's presence at launch.I can understand how the current system evolved
from clubs wanting to control pilots in their aircraft but surely it's time for
this outdated system to be relinquished.Enough discussion here may even start
movement in that direction from GFA. What do you think?Regards,Greg Wilson----
On Sat, 04 Feb 2017 11:13:37 +1100 James McDowall<[email protected]>
wrote ---- Before it is worth spending another cent on marketing gliding, it is
essential to get the product right. After 30 years of flogging the current
model all that has been achieved is a 50% reduction in membership. In the same
period the population of Australia increased by 50% so the market penetration
of the product has fallen by two thirds. Any commercial product manager who did
not address the product deficiencies in this situation who most certainly end
up unemployed. The fundamental problem is that the core membership have a
propensity to say “I bought the product and it works for me so it is a good
product.” This illusory logic is what has caused some notable marketing
failures from the Ford Edsel to Kodak to Blackberry and Nokia. The problem
is illustrated in this forum where many experienced and passionate glider
pilots, many of them not currently involved in the activity (is it really a
sport?), have identified that the product is wrong for the current marketplace.
Over the decades GFA and others have sought to “market” the product ie join
a club, be a volunteer, get fried in the sun and always be under the control of
a CFI even if he/she is not even near the airfield. Gliding is not really
a cheap alternative to RA_Aus. You and a couple of mates can buy a Jab for $25K
and have a heap of fun. Registration and membership cost are lower and
maintenance costs are similar until the donk spits a dummy in which case there
of plenty of secondhand motors around. In the meantime many flyng hours on your
terms. Gliding needs to get closer to the GA / RA-Aus model. The days of
primary gliders on the Wussekrappe are well gone. Independent operation of
gliders needs to be encouraged not seen as a distant goal for a newbie. Self
launchers should be mandatory for training (GFA could use its millions to help
out here), commercial training operations encouraged to unload clubs of the
responsibility and GFA should get out of the rule writing business. On Fri,
Feb 3, 2017 at 4:12 PM, Stuart Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:It would be
interesting to get a survey to that effect. I have found that with the people I
have tried to recruit. Those who show an interest see it as a high performance
sport.Aside from the sporting aspect, what does gliding hope to offer a new
member?Cheap flying? Prices are compatible to RA-Aus.Convenient flying? No
matter about procedural changes at the club level powered will always have the
upper hand.Professional opportunities? Again, RA aus can be converted to GA and
commercial much easierCost of ownership? I have much more options in Ra
Australia, especially at the lower end of the market. Instead of trying to copy
RA aus's attraction (on which gliding will always be on the back foot) we
should be chasing the people who want what Ra Aus doesnt offer.I've found that
sharing tasks and talking about performance of people at comps has attracted
more follow up and continuing engagement on the topic than the flying aspect.
The people who I have got interested in the flying have moved on to RA Aus for
the exact reasons I've statedOn Friday, February 3, 2017, Matthew Scutter
<[email protected]> wrote:Regarding the competition pilot vs.
non-competition pilot debate, I don't think I've met a junior that hasn't been,
or doesn't want to go to Joeyglide. Perhaps in the broader population
competition pilots are under represented, but amongst younger pilots (fresh
blood) it seems to swing the other way.On 3 Feb 2017 2:56 PM, "Greg Wilson"
<[email protected]> wrote:In an attempt to get a worthwhile discussion get
back on track. Not my ideas but a brief summary of this conversation so
far.Perceived problems:GFA administrationOverly focused on competition carried
out by a tiny minority of pilotsResistant to changeMinimum required to deal
with CASAClubs Membership decliningTrainingVolunteer based - not providing
scheduled and efficient training expected by younger peopleInstructors need to
be paidPilotsVery few given L2 independent ops so vast majority permanently
operating under supervision of instructorsGliding responsibility needs to be in
the hands of the pilot, not club or CFIAging pilotsAircraftMany aging
glidersmany out of service yet still on registerSolutions??Greg Wilson---- On
Thu, 02 Feb 2017 21:40:18 +1100 Robert Izatt<[email protected]> wrote
---- Not entirely true. Many have indicated a direction.Your problem is, for 1
through 4 you have to have willingness and co-operation from the clubs and the
management skills at the club level. Most members of a club want to enjoy the
activity without having to run a business. You need special or stupid people
who are happy to devote countless hours to this when really the club (or some
members) doesn’t want to deal with all the hassles of larger numbers, less
access to equipment (glider/tug), bigger queues at the flight line etc etc etc.
I have been there. And that’s their right and good luck to them.On 2 Feb. 2017,
at 11:11 am, Peter Carey <[email protected]> wrote:This has been a very deep
and meaningful discussion and, to me, it was enlightening and educational. Most
of the contributions were well thought out and clearly expressed.My only
problem is that the conversation was confined to defining the problem and, what
we should be concentrating is a solution.We have done the talk, now, let's try
to do the walk.I am new to the game (been gliding for 40 years) and a bloody
foreigner (living here for 60 years) so, you have to forgive me if I am on the
wrong path.We won't be able to solve the membership decline issue with
volunteer, amateur way so, we need to look for an alternative and here is one
of many.For years the GFA has been sitting on well over a million dollars. I
suggest that we spend half of it on professional planning and marketing.We
would get an organization to1. Draw up a business plan for the GFA and for the
Clubs (one each for large, medium and small Clubs)2. Draw up a plan and budget
for effective publicity and social media campaign.3. Oversee the implementation
of the above. 4. The implementation should be carried out by the staff employed
by the GFA.This is my crude attempt to invite praise, abuse and expansion to
the above.“Beside the noble art of getting things done, there is the noble art
of leaving things undone.” ― lin yu tangPeter CareyOn Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 10:12
AM, Erich Wittstock <[email protected]> wrote:..ahh..the sweet sound of
jealousy! ;-)On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Mark Newton
<[email protected]> wrote:On 2 Feb 2017, at 9:24 AM,
[email protected] wrote: > If we assume it is only age related, the
register shows that the cut off year for the 600 oldest gliders is 1978. So all
that "old low performance stuff" would include all the LS1s, Cirrus, Libelles,
Mosquitos, Astir CS/CS77s and Hornets and some of the Jantars, PIK20s, ASW20s
and LS3s. The ASH-25 first flew in 1987. That makes it a 30 year old
aircraft. Won’t be too long before it’s classified as a vintage sailplane :-)
- mark _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing
list [email protected]
http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
_______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list
[email protected] http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
-- PETER CAREYExecutive MemberThe Victorian Vernier SocietyThe Society for
People with a Passion for Manufacturing'sharing experience - building a better
future'www.vernier.org.au0412464340
_______________________________________________Aus-soaring mailing
[email protected]http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring_______________________________________________
Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected]
http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
_______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list
[email protected] http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
_______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list
[email protected] http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
_______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list
[email protected] http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
_______________________________________________
Aus-soaring mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
