The problem is, if someone was successfully cheating, by definition you
wouldn't know!

In reality is cheating for non-record breaking flights a problem worth
worrying about?

Cheers,

Al

On 20 January 2011 14:04, Tim Shirley <[email protected]> wrote:

>  As Mike says, the artificial generation of GPS signals has always been
> possible, as have several other possible methods of cheating.  It’s a bit of
> a yawn, really.
>
>
>
> Anyone who wants to come to one of my competitions and try it on is
> welcome.  I predict they will be shown the gate in about 2 days, and will
> never fly a glider in a competition again.  It will be definitely more fun
> to just fly the task.
>
>
>
> And no (before you ask), I am not going to tell you how I will know.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> *Tim*
>
> * *
>
> *tra dire e fare c`è mezzo il mare*
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:
> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Mike Borgelt
> *Sent:* Thursday, 20 January 2011 14:26
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Forgery and sabotage
>
>
>
> Mark,
>
> That sort of stuff has been available for a long time, just cheaper
> and even more ubiquitous now.
>
> About 12 years ago a guy claimed on r.a.s. that he had done this. He
> knew some guys in military electronics in the US. He thought the IGC
> security requirements were ludicrous because of this gaping hole in
> the security.
>
> You probably don't need to buy one, just know somebody who works at a
> small company that has one and that he can take home on the weekend.
>
> This was all discussed extensively when the IGC decided to adopt GNSS
> loggers and they even made a rule "It is prohibited to feed data into
> the device via the antenna".
>
> Makes all the rest of the security song and dance look pretty silly.
> As ever, security comes down to people  - in this case the O.O.s. If
> the O.O. is present at the beginning and end of flight and scutineers
> the glider you'll get reasonable security. The IGC decided they
> couldn't trust the O.O. so tried to build the security into the
> hardware. Epic fail.
>
> If you own an IGC flight recorder just think of all the money you
> were forced to spend for non existent security.
>
> Come to think of it, a device  like this would be great for AATs. Fly
> the task and record the GPS position and move it a little further
> each fix until you've flown a greater distance. Feed that through the
> device and into the FR in near real time.
>
>
> Mike
>
> At 12:29 PM 20/01/2011, you wrote:
> >Amazing the kind of stuff that's available off-the-shelf these days.
> >
> >I reckon if you put one of these and a IGC-approved logger into a
> >barometric chamber, you can create the world record datalogger trace
> >of your choice:
> >http://labsat.co.uk/
> >
> >The labsat unit takes a GPS or GNSS datafile and plays it back as RF,
> >so a nearby GPS device will actually believe that it has followed the
> >course described by the trace.  With a barometric chamber you get the
> >pressure altitude axis as well.  The result will be a datafile you
> >can extract from your IGC-approved logger which says pretty much
> >whatever you want it to say.
> >
> >It costs about UKP7000, so you might want to buy into one in a
> >syndicate with other like-minded cheats.  "Tell you what, I'll
> >claim the distance record, why don't you claim the speed-around-
> >a-300km-triangle record?"
> >
> >Meanwhile, there're also ways of preventing other people from getting
> >logger traces.  For about twenty bucks you can get one of these:
> >http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.35827
> >Couple it with a 12V power source and hide it in the tiedown kit bag
> >in whichever aircraft is at the top of a competition leaderboard to
> >produce a "I would have won that comp if it weren't for that goddamn
> >GPS malfunction!" result.  Maybe you're not even competing in the
> >comp, you just want to stir trouble 'cos you're taking the piss.
> >
> >It comes with free delivery :-)
> >
> >The equipment required to both forge and sabotage GPS traces is
> >readily available off-the-shelf at prices that individuals can afford.
> >
> >For how long will GPS continue to be trusted for world record and
> >competition claims?  Will we get back to using barographs and cameras?
> >Are the requirements on official observers good enough to protect against
> >forgery?
> >
> >I love the 21st century :-)
> >
> >   - mark
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------
> >I tried an internal modem,                    [email protected]
> >      but it hurt when I walked.                          Mark Newton
> >----- Voice: +61-4-1620-2223 ------------- Fax: +61-8-82231777 -----
> >
> >
> >
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> Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since
> 1978
> phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
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>
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