Sorry to disagree with you John, but your remark is at odds with the facts. The "baptism" is a church event (yes); is there a written document describing what took place, and who participated in the event? yes; a Baptismal certificate was issued; is it an affidavit? yes, it is a testament to the fact that an event took place in which certain individuals participated; Did anyone witness said event? yes, people witnessed the event, and testified to such. Was a document issued by the church? yes, a document certifying that the event took place on such and such a date, in which certain individuals participated, and which certain individuals witnessed, and testified to. That is the definition of prima facie evidence. "Formality" has nothing to do with the facts. Regardless of whether someone uses a pseudo-name, or not, doesn't invalidate the "legal name" and "legal date of birth" - even if such information was acquired by a non-governmental agency, eg... My mother, who was baptized Maria, was born on the 24th day of March, in the year 1908. She was baptized on the 29th of the same mo, and yr. However, because of a misunderstanding that dated back to the way such information was recorded, her date of birth became 29 Mar 1908. That was the date she used for her entire life - that is until she decided to retire - when she was required to submit a birth certificate, that was when she found out her "real" DOB, and that her name was not Maria da Conceicao, but, plain old Maria. Well her Medicare card came through a few weeks later with her "new (original)"name Maria. My Grandmother underwent a similar circumstance, "until" she was required to submit a document certifying her name, and DOB, Surprise, Surprise!! No matter how hard you try to change things they always remain the same... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On Saturday, May 3, 2014 11:48:24 AM UTC-4, John Raposo wrote: > > Actually, things were not that formal in the Azores at that time. There > was the baptismal name, ehich one would think would be one's "legal" name, > but by the time these women married, many had names that were very > different from the baptismal name. And, if they had 6 children there might > be 6 variations of the mother's name. My own paternal grandmother was Maria > at birth, and then on her marriage record and in the birth records of her > children she appears as Maria da Estrela, Maria Cândida, Maria Cândida de > Jesus, etc. > > As for Matias Carvalho and the two ladies, I think we are dealing with two > couples. > > Matias Carvalho, son António Carvalho and Maria de Benevides of > Mosteiros, was married in Bretanha on 28 Feb 1729 to Margarida de > Vasconcelos, daughter of Manuel Soares Cabral and Ana Raposo, all of > Bretanha. > > And then we have Matias Carvalho of Mosteiros who married Gertrudes > Vasconcelos, daughter of José da Costa Quaresma and Maria de Vasconcelos, > all of Bretanha. They must have married by 1729 since their daughter Ana > was born on 30 Oct 1729. So we have to be talking about two couples. > > I hope this helps. > > John Miranda Raposo > > On Saturday, May 3, 2014 9:18 AM, Dano <[email protected] <javascript:>> > wrote: > Let me add this reply to your question. This is a Marriage Record. It is > a legal document, that is, it deals with the legal names of the > participants, and the event that they are participating in; you ask if > "Margarida" could have been known as "Gertrude." She could have been > "known" by any name she wanted, however, in the legal document, her "name > of record" would have been used - as you can see... > > On Friday, May 2, 2014 9:56:50 PM UTC-4, audiosourceinc wrote: > > Could the mother of the groom be Maria de Benavides? I have found a Manoel > Carvalho and Maria de Benavides who had a son named Mathias in 1704 in > Mosterios. I think it might be the same couple. > Erica > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:azo...@googlegroups. com] *On > Behalf Of *Erica Botelho > *Sent:* Friday, May 02, 2014 6:14 PM > *To:* [email protected] > > *Subject:* [AZORES-Genealogy] Ajuda de Bretanha marriage 1729 Mathias > Carvalho and Margarida da Coucellos > > I am struggling with this record. I think I might be seeing what I WANT to > see instead of what it really says. I am looking for the marriage record of > Mathias Carvalho and Gertrude Coucellos. Mathias(Matheus) is from N.S. da > Conceicao of Masterios and Gertrude is from N.S. da Ajuda of Bretanha > according to their childrens’ baptismal and marriage records. Could > Margarida have been called Gertrude and became known as that name? > > I would love to know what people read for Mathias’ mother as well as all > the information on the bride. > > The record is on the right side > http://culturacores.azores. gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG- > PD-AJUDABRETANHA-C-1703-1779/ SMG-PD-AJUDABRETANHA-C-1703- > 1779_item1/P13.html<http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-AJUDABRETANHA-C-1703-1779/SMG-PD-AJUDABRETANHA-C-1703-1779_item1/P13.html> > > Thank you, > Erica Botelho > > > -- > For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the > right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my > membership." > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > >
-- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
