The Baha'i Studies Listserv Hi all, Sen I found this custom of grace before meals very sweet and healthy. When I read sometime ago that we cannot do it (Lights of Guidance), I feel a little rude. I always ask myself: why not? But we have to investigate the truth; so, it is not a matter of history, this is a matter of elucidation and practice for believers; I think the House could (should) elucidate this if one ask them.
________________________________ De: Sen & Sonja <sen.so...@casema.nl> Para: Baha'i Studies <bahai-st@list.jccc.edu> Enviado: jue, junio 17, 2010 5:05:34 AM Asunto: Grace at Meals The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 16 Jun 2010 at 15:59, Hasan Elías wrote: > Sen, did you try to clarify this issue asking the House? I haven't asked them about the letter against teaching grace to our children, but I have asked them some questions about the letters written on behalf of the Guardian. The response was not illuminating. I suspect my question was simply not clear enough for them, for it certainly wasn't answered. The problem is, the problem so complex, it's difficult to even formulate the question(s). We have different editorial practices : the editor of Unfolding Destiny includes only letters with a postscript or signature by Shoghi Effendi or internal evidence that the letter was in fact composed on Shoghi Effendi's instructions, whereas the editors of other collections seem to be including anything they think is written on Shoghi Effendi's behalf - and their criteria for this are not explicit. This difference may reflect different practices in Shoghi Effendi's office, because the editor of Unfolding Destiny notes at one point : == Editor's Note: >From December 1926 to April 1927, ... Miss Ethel J. Rosenberg ... was on pilgrimage and kept up a lengthy and repetitive correspondence with George P. Simpson. In these letters from Miss Rosenberg are many instructions from the Guardian to the British National Assembly. The letter reproduced in this compilation, dated January 29th, 1927 is important for many reasons: 1. It is the only one from Miss Rosenberg which carried the handwriting of Shoghi Effendi where he "Approved" what had been written.... (Shoghi Effendi, The Unfolding Destiny of the British Baha'i Community, p. 64) === This seems to indicate that a pilgrim's private correspondence with a member of the UK NSA often included instructions from the Guardian, but only one of these letters show Shoghi Effendi's approval for the letter. In fact, it seems that Rosenberg was not a secretary but was the main channel of communication with that NSA for a period of 4 months. Maybe this is a unique situation, explaining why the editor of Unfolding Destiny was particular about choosing the letters he really knew were written "on behalf of the Guardian." Or maybe it happened in other cases too, that pilgrims and workers at the world centre, in their own correspondence, conveyed information about Shoghi Effendi's plans and opinions and instructions, sometimes as their own observations, sometimes because Shoghi Effendi had asked them to. Perhaps other editors are simply less aware of the issue. In the case of the remaining letters through Miss Rosenberg, are we to regard them as letters on behalf, or not? I was hoping that the research department would say something about this situation, and how many letters might be involved, for which secretaries, over what periods. Either they didn't 'get' my question, or they were not sufficiently interested to do the research. A related aspect is simple misattribution: a letter or a snippet from a letter may be transmitted as "on behalf" when it is actually unambiguously private correspondence. I've found three letters written on Holy Days, for example, one of which flatly contradicts something that Shoghi Effendi reports in God Passes By. I think they are probably private correspondence misattributed as letters on behalf. Another issue with these letters - which I didn't raise with the Research Department because it's a known problem - is that the letters are often in response to a particular question and situation, which the writer and addressee know, but we do not. So what they conveyed from author to addressee may be quite different to what they seem to say when we read them today without that knowledge. Gerald Keil has done one detailed study of one letter, for which he has tracked down the question: he concludes fairly I think that what is clearly seems to say, is not what it meant then. That's published in German, but I'm hopeful there will be an English translation forthcoming. I've dealt more brieflyy with a letter by a secretary that refers to "The Baha´i theocracy, on the contrary..." which has led to misunderstandings, but for which we can track down the previous reference that makes it clear (see http://wp.me/PcgF5-1ji ). Apart from these issues of textual history, there's also some theoretical questions. The authority of these letters is said to be less (25 February 1951 to the National Spiritual Assembly of the British Isles), but which authority is that (as interpreter of the teachings, or as head of the Faith giving the orders of the day to his generals, the National Assemblies), and how can an authority be "less." ? Does that mean, less in extent (applying to a particular situation), or does it mean, lower in status, so in the event of conflicts they are overruled by any letter with a higher status? What is meant by the Guardian's practice of reading all the letters (apart, presumably, from private correspondence by his secretaries, except again for one case with Ethel Rosenberg)? He also read all the minutes of NSAs and various committees. Is this because he had to be informed, or had to approve of everything? If he does not correct something, does that mean he approved of it? Silence is a weak argument, because Shoghi Effendi might have corrected something, by oral instruction or in another letter we don't know about, or he might have not taken corrective action because the situation changed and the issue became moot. What about Shoghi Effendi's instruction : "As regards Shoghi Effendi's letters to the individual Bahá'ís, he is always very careful not to contradict himself. He has also said that whenever he has something of importance to say, he invariably communicates it to the National Spiritual Assembly or in his general letters. His personal letters to individual friends are only for their personal benefit and even though he does not want to forbid their publication, he does not wish them to be used too much by the Bahá'í News. Only letters with special significance should be published there." (Shoghi Effendi, Extracts from the USBN) We don't follow these instructions today - but the instructions are themselves in a letter apparently written on his behalf, so their authority is less - whatever that means - so perhaps we should not take the above too seriously? But then, what is actually done is to lump together all the letters of Shoghi Effendi, personal and on behalf, to individuals and assemblies and his general letters. That surely was not what Shoghi Effendi wanted - but what exactly *would* he want us to do then? For that in the end is the goal - to determine what Shoghi Effendi's intention was, and follow it. I'm sure I haven't exhausted all the aspects of this. There are some postings on my blog that touch on various aspects. In approximately declining order of relevance Letters on Behalf : http://wp.me/PcgF5-14i http://wp.me/PcgF5-1nd On the distinction between Shoghi Effendi´s authorities as head of the faith and as interpreter of the Teachings, see http://wp.me/PcgF5-SF for a letter "on behalf" that is misused by the Remeyites to boost their claims: http://senmcglinn.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/no-counterfeits/ (in the postscript) On 3 particular instances I asked the Research Department about: http://wp.me/PcgF5-1p9 and probably many more. Letters of Shoghi Effendi, and on his behalf and possibly on his behalf, intersect with studies on virtually every theme. By all means ask a specific question of the Research Department, about the saying grace letter. In this case, if we knew what *question* was asked, or what proposal had been put to the Guardian, it's very likely we will see that what was proposed was indeed a Christian-specific practice, and that the response was appropriate for that situation Sen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Sen McGlinn http://senmcglinn.wordpress.com Happy are those who spend their days in gaining knowledge, in discovering the secrets of nature, and in penetrating the subtleties of pure truth! Woe to those who are contented with ignorance, whose hearts are gladdened by thoughtless imitation, ... who have wasted their lives!"(~Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions p.137) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:hasanel...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-509855-1610...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-509937-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
