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Oops. Obviously I mean caring for the poor, not carrying them. ;-}

On 10/27/10, Susan Maneck <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 10/27/10, Susan Maneck <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> There is difference between means and ends. For example, there are so
>>> called
>>> social justice passages in the Bible. They refer to religion permeating
>>> a
>>> society so much that people's charity would be enough to alleviate
>>> poverty.
>>> Jesus and the prophets talks to ordinary people to give to charity not
>>> the
>>> gov'ts. Judeo-Christian-Islamic justice implies widespread charity in a
>>> society,
>>> tithing (10% JC or 2.5-20% I), and voluntary offerings.
>>
>> Dear Stephen,
>>
>> I would say this is true in regards to Jesus who was not terribly
>> concerned with how governments functioned. According to Acts of the
>> Apostles, however, in the early church Christians shared all things in
>> common, which goes far beyond charity. In any case, the prophets
>> condemned the government and the priesthood for poverty, not people's
>> lack of charity. . hey  prohibited practices like usury that led to
>> such poverty in the strongest terms.Taxations aimed primarily at the
>> peasant farmer were condemned as well. Our own bankruptcy laws in this
>> country are based on biblical principles although  recent laws have
>> eroded these
>>
>> Now, in regards to charging interest Baha'u'llah does annul the
>> Biblical and Qur'anic prohibitions and states that a reasonable amount
>> of interest may be charged (with the House of Justice deciding what is
>> reasonable.) Usury or exorbitant interest  charged to the poor is
>> still condemned. While the Huqullah is entirely voluntary and cannot
>> be coerced, Abdu'l-Baha also spoke of a graduated income tax. I don't
>> get the impression that this is voluntary.
>>
>> At the same time Abdu'l-Baha insist that complete economic equality is
>> neither possible or desirable. He recognized that people need
>> incentives.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alms
>>>
>>> In Judiasm, Tzedekah means both charity and justice (as well as fairness
>>> and
>>> righteousness).
>>
>> Which certainly suggest that justice must include carrying for the poor.
>>
>>> Who's to say an increase in the job market, more self-employment, more
>>> independent contractors, more investors, more business owners isn't the
>>> solution?
>>
>> I'm sure it is part of the solution. One of the reasons industrial
>> capitalism was never as exploitive in the US as it was in England or
>> Europe is because during the time of the Industrial Revolution
>> American workers  always had an alternative which  their European
>> counterparts did not posses. The ready availability of land meant they
>> could always had the alternative to be self-employed (as farmers)
>> rather than work for the big corporations. Unfortunately that is no
>> longer an option for most people. Unbridled capitalism today  tends to
>> favor the big multi-nationals, not small business and self-employment.
>> Also, without affordable health care self-employment is not really an
>> option for most people.
>>
>>>
>>> Really, the issue requires us to reflect on how wealth is created.
>>
>> Contrary to common opinion Adam Smith never saw a 'social welfare'
>> state as incompatible with the 'invisible hand' of the free market.
>> His protest in the *The Wealth of Nations* was a condemnation of
>> mercantilism, which had led to colonialism. If you read his earlier
>> work  *The Theory of Moral Sentiments.*
>>
>> Adam Smith vigorously defended such public services as free education
>> and poverty relief,
>> calling for  greater freedom for the those  who receives support from
>> the state, unlike the
>> punitive Poor Laws which existed at the time. He also acknowledged the
>> importance of interventions on behalf of the poor and the underdogs of
>> society that might result from a free market system He stated the
>> following principle:.  "When the regulation, therefore, is in favour
>> of the workmen, it is always just and equitable; but it is sometimes
>> otherwise when in favour of the masters."
>>
>> Adam Smith, like Abdu'l-Baha supported both the profit motive and
>> social values which transcended it. Both believed these values should
>> be expressed, not merely in acts of charity but in the policies of the
>> state.
>>
>>
>> warmest, Susan
>>
>

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