The Baha'i Studies Listserv *"At the same time Abdu'l-Baha insist that complete economic equality is neither possible or desirable. He recognized that people need incentives."* ** I would also add that most Socialists would probably agree with that assessment. This notion that "the Left", "Socialists", "Marxists" want every person to have *exact equal amount of income*, seems to be conservative propaganda at worst and naivity at best. Perhaps a few people think that is a good idea, but I seriously doubt that most people calling themselves Socialists believe that every person should have the exact same amount of cash in their banking accounts for their to be justice. What they do believe is eliminating the "extremes", as you say. It's not like there is no such thing as a wealthy Socialist.
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:38 PM, Susan Maneck <[email protected]> wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > There is difference between means and ends. For example, there are so > called > > social justice passages in the Bible. They refer to religion permeating a > > society so much that people's charity would be enough to alleviate > poverty. > > Jesus and the prophets talks to ordinary people to give to charity not > the > > gov'ts. Judeo-Christian-Islamic justice implies widespread charity in a > > society, > > tithing (10% JC or 2.5-20% I), and voluntary offerings. > > Dear Stephen, > > I would say this is true in regards to Jesus who was not terribly > concerned with how governments functioned. According to Acts of the > Apostles, however, in the early church Christians shared all things in > common, which goes far beyond charity. In any case, the prophets > condemned the government and the priesthood for poverty, not people's > lack of charity. . hey prohibited practices like usury that led to > such poverty in the strongest terms.Taxations aimed primarily at the > peasant farmer were condemned as well. Our own bankruptcy laws in this > country are based on biblical principles although recent laws have > eroded these > > Now, in regards to charging interest Baha'u'llah does annul the > Biblical and Qur'anic prohibitions and states that a reasonable amount > of interest may be charged (with the House of Justice deciding what is > reasonable.) Usury or exorbitant interest charged to the poor is > still condemned. While the Huqullah is entirely voluntary and cannot > be coerced, Abdu'l-Baha also spoke of a graduated income tax. I don't > get the impression that this is voluntary. > > At the same time Abdu'l-Baha insist that complete economic equality is > neither possible or desirable. He recognized that people need > incentives. > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alms > > > > In Judiasm, Tzedekah means both charity and justice (as well as fairness > and > > righteousness). > > Which certainly suggest that justice must include carrying for the poor. > > > Who's to say an increase in the job market, more self-employment, more > > independent contractors, more investors, more business owners isn't the > > solution? > > I'm sure it is part of the solution. One of the reasons industrial > capitalism was never as exploitive in the US as it was in England or > Europe is because during the time of the Industrial Revolution > American workers always had an alternative which their European > counterparts did not posses. The ready availability of land meant they > could always had the alternative to be self-employed (as farmers) > rather than work for the big corporations. Unfortunately that is no > longer an option for most people. Unbridled capitalism today tends to > favor the big multi-nationals, not small business and self-employment. > Also, without affordable health care self-employment is not really an > option for most people. > > > > > Really, the issue requires us to reflect on how wealth is created. > > Contrary to common opinion Adam Smith never saw a 'social welfare' > state as incompatible with the 'invisible hand' of the free market. > His protest in the *The Wealth of Nations* was a condemnation of > mercantilism, which had led to colonialism. If you read his earlier > work *The Theory of Moral Sentiments.* > > Adam Smith vigorously defended such public services as free education > and poverty relief, > calling for greater freedom for the those who receives support from > the state, unlike the > punitive Poor Laws which existed at the time. He also acknowledged the > importance of interventions on behalf of the poor and the underdogs of > society that might result from a free market system He stated the > following principle:. "When the regulation, therefore, is in favour > of the workmen, it is always just and equitable; but it is sometimes > otherwise when in favour of the masters." > > Adam Smith, like Abdu'l-Baha supported both the profit motive and > social values which transcended it. Both believed these values should > be expressed, not merely in acts of charity but in the policies of the > state. > > > warmest, Susan > > __________________________________________________ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto: > leave-535782-953325.e9a9b042dd227e4657deb0ff0d384...@list.jccc.edu > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to > [email protected] > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:[email protected] > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-535914-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [email protected] Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
