The Baha'i Studies Listserv *"Sure, and the same is true of Islam... both in terms of how Muslims understand Islamic general roles, or, in this case, how non-Muslims at times go too far in attributing problematic gender roles to Islam per se. As I've said to you before, if you really believe that God is merciful and just, and if you really believe that the Quran comes from God, then it should be possible to follow the Quran and be compassionate and just to women."*
As a Muslim, I agree with you. But I think I understand where Susan is coming from in regards to her own religion's view. The Baha'i Faith (in my understanding) is a Dispensationalist religion - whereby it is believed that God sort of "took" His/Her Spirit away from the most previous revelation (Islam), and placed it in the hands of the Baha'i Faith. Therefore, all spiritual progress that has since been made by other religions is to really be credited to the Baha'i Faith for being the kind of "command center" of the religious universe, that is sending out inspiration to the rest of the religious world. Hence, progress made in other religions is not to be credited to those religions themselves, but to the Baha'i Faith. That is why some Baha'is tend to gloss over the changes and reforms that other religions are going under, because it is believed that a true practice of older religions would ultimately lead to very bad things. You can also look at it like a business owner. The Baha'i Faith would be a very kind business executive who wishes for his competitors success in their endeavors, but will still compete for buying customers nonetheless. Therefore, he/she can't excessively praise their competition to the point that people may go to their competitors. I personally have no problem in saying that the Baha'i Faith has brought some progressive teachings to the world of religion, such as an universal auxiliary language, encouragement of developing skills in the arts and sciences, promoting reading and writing intelligence, the equality of the sexes, the universality of human beings, the promotion of concord between religions. What irks me, though, is when some Baha'is say that none of the other religions have these teachings, which seems to contradict the whole idea of promoting concord between the religions - because it's basically saying "let's get along everyone. I'm better than all of you", in my view. But maybe that is an emotional rather than rational view of mine. Salam On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 1:03 AM, Gilberto Simpson <gilberto.simp...@gmail.com > wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Susan Maneck <sman...@gmail.com> wrote: > > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > >> Wow, that's a really insulting ad hominem counter-argument which is > >> really irrelevant to what was said. > > > > It is not an issue of being ad hominem. > > Perhaps you didn't intend it this way, but the basic form of your > argument was to say that Naison was wrong because he was echoing > Muslim arguments. And you didn't give any other specific reason for > the argument not being valid. That seems like a pretty standard ad > hominem argument. > > If we are in fact not saying > > anything different about the roles of women and men than Christians > > and Muslims then we can't really say we are making any progress when > > it comes to equality. > > Progress doesn't have to be just in terms of the formal law (this > book vs. that book) but it can also be made in terms of the social > reality. As time goes on, all societies (Muslim, Christian, Bahai > etc.) are making progress in terms of women's equality. You don't have > to frame it as a Bahai vs. Islam argument. > > Also, I've said this before but there are certainly issues where > "progress" isn't monotonic in a simple-minded way. For example, why > would God prohibit pork under Judaism, permit it under Christianity, > prohibit it under Islam, and then permit it under the Bahai faith > again? > > > > > > And it is only > >> natural that a thoughtful Bahai would want to try to articulate some > >> reasons those distinctions are made. > > > > Perhaps it is. But what I see happening is that all too often is that > > the very few distinctions made in our Writings are made into an excuse > > to continue inequalities in all sorts of areas which are not > > warranted. > > Sure, and the same is true of Islam... both in terms of how Muslims > understand Islamic general roles, or, in this case, how non-Muslims at > times go too far in attributing problematic gender roles to Islam per > se. As I've said to you before, if you really believe that God is > merciful and just, and if you really believe that the Quran comes from > God, then it should be possible to follow the Quran and be > compassionate and just to women. > > > > __________________________________________________ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:matthewhaa...@gmail.com > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto: > leave-537143-953325.e9a9b042dd227e4657deb0ff0d384...@list.jccc.edu > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to > ly...@list.jccc.edu > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > > __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-537144-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
