The Baha'i Studies Listserv Yes, I think we understand one another. On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 1:46 AM, Matt Haase <[email protected]> wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > "Sure, and the same is true of Islam... both in terms of how Muslims > understand Islamic general roles, or, in this case, how non-Muslims at > times go too far in attributing problematic gender roles to Islam per > se. As I've said to you before, if you really believe that God is > merciful and just, and if you really believe that the Quran comes from > God, then it should be possible to follow the Quran and be > compassionate and just to women." > > As a Muslim, I agree with you. But I think I understand where Susan > is coming from in regards to her own religion's view. The Baha'i Faith (in > my understanding) is a Dispensationalist religion - whereby it is believed > that God sort of "took" His/Her Spirit away from the most previous > revelation (Islam), and placed it in the hands of the Baha'i Faith. > Therefore, all spiritual progress that has since been made by other > religions is to really be credited to the Baha'i Faith for being the kind of > "command center" of the religious universe, that is sending out inspiration > to the rest of the religious world. Hence, progress made in other religions > is not to be credited to those religions themselves, but to the Baha'i > Faith. That is why some Baha'is tend to gloss over the changes and reforms > that other religions are going under, because it is believed that a true > practice of older religions would ultimately lead to very bad things. > > You can also look at it like a business owner. The Baha'i Faith would be a > very kind business executive who wishes for his competitors success in their > endeavors, but will still compete for buying customers nonetheless. > Therefore, he/she can't excessively praise their competition to the point > that people may go to their competitors. I personally have no problem in > saying that the Baha'i Faith has brought some progressive teachings to the > world of religion, such as an universal auxiliary language, encouragement of > developing skills in the arts and sciences, promoting reading and writing > intelligence, the equality of the sexes, the universality of human beings, > the promotion of concord between religions. What irks me, though, is when > some Baha'is say that none of the other religions have these teachings, > which seems to contradict the whole idea of promoting concord between the > religions - because it's basically saying "let's get along everyone. I'm > better than all of you", in my view. But maybe that is an emotional rather > than rational view of mine. > > Salam > > > > On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 1:03 AM, Gilberto Simpson > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Susan Maneck <[email protected]> wrote: >> > The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> >> Wow, that's a really insulting ad hominem counter-argument which is >> >> really irrelevant to what was said. >> > >> > It is not an issue of being ad hominem. >> >> Perhaps you didn't intend it this way, but the basic form of your >> argument was to say that Naison was wrong because he was echoing >> Muslim arguments. And you didn't give any other specific reason for >> the argument not being valid. That seems like a pretty standard ad >> hominem argument. >> >> If we are in fact not saying >> > anything different about the roles of women and men than Christians >> > and Muslims then we can't really say we are making any progress when >> > it comes to equality. >> >> Progress doesn't have to be just in terms of the formal law (this >> book vs. that book) but it can also be made in terms of the social >> reality. As time goes on, all societies (Muslim, Christian, Bahai >> etc.) are making progress in terms of women's equality. You don't have >> to frame it as a Bahai vs. Islam argument. >> >> Also, I've said this before but there are certainly issues where >> "progress" isn't monotonic in a simple-minded way. For example, why >> would God prohibit pork under Judaism, permit it under Christianity, >> prohibit it under Islam, and then permit it under the Bahai faith >> again? >> >> >> > >> > And it is only >> >> natural that a thoughtful Bahai would want to try to articulate some >> >> reasons those distinctions are made. >> > >> > Perhaps it is. But what I see happening is that all too often is that >> > the very few distinctions made in our Writings are made into an excuse >> > to continue inequalities in all sorts of areas which are not >> > warranted. >> >> Sure, and the same is true of Islam... both in terms of how Muslims >> understand Islamic general roles, or, in this case, how non-Muslims at >> times go too far in attributing problematic gender roles to Islam per >> se. As I've said to you before, if you really believe that God is >> merciful and just, and if you really believe that the Quran comes from >> God, then it should be possible to follow the Quran and be >> compassionate and just to women. >> > >> >> __________________________________________________ >> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] >> Unsubscribe: send a blank email to >> mailto:leave-537143-953325.e9a9b042dd227e4657deb0ff0d384...@list.jccc.edu >> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to >> [email protected] >> Or subscribe: >> http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st >> Baha'i Studies is available through the following: >> Mail - mailto:[email protected] >> Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st >> News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st >> Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> > > __________________________________________________ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to > mailto:leave-537144-68452.e157d5dc5efabb63696f251595c88...@list.jccc.edu > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to > [email protected] > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:[email protected] > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
__________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-537150-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [email protected] Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
