Gyan, the technology that you look for exists and is about to go standards
RFC (i.e. _scalable_ L3 multihoming to the host including bandwidth
load-balancing and many other things that need consideration in such case,
e.g. host asic table scalability). Please look @
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rift-rift/  If you need more
info/code, more than happy to talk out of band

thanks

-- tony

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 2:04 PM Gyan Mishra <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi Sandy
>
> Thank you for the feedback on your use cases.
>
> For now will remain L2 MLAG to the host.
>
> BESS WG,
>
> If anyone hears of any new developments on vxlan fabric extension to
> hypervisor and any vendors supporting even 3rd party open source
> implementations of fabric extensions please reach out to me.
>
> As an aside when reading RFC 8365 NVO3 section 7  it kind of gets excited
> by the subject heading “single homed NVE residing in Hypervisor” or section
> 8 MH NVE in TOR server - thinking that maybe fabric extension to hypervisor
> does actually exist but of course the let down that no vendor supports it..
>
> It does seem there would be a lot of customers wanting this fabric
> extension to hypervisor capabilities for MH load balancing- and very
> surprising that it does not exist.
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8365#section-7
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> Gyan Mishra
> Verizon
> Cell 301 502-1347
>
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 4:57 PM Sandy Breeze <[email protected]
> <[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>> Hi Gyan,
>>
>>
>>
>> Here, we use a mix of NXOS & Arista EOS for leaf and spine, ASR9k DCI
>> doing L2 + L3 VTEP and stitching to MPLS EVPN / traditional VPNv4/6.  We
>> also confess to pockets of proprietary NXOS vPC, and, pockets of Arista
>> ESI-MH.  Incidentally, the older Broadcom NXOS boxes do have ESI-MH
>> capabilities and that worked alright.  Customers, like us, have been long
>> promised the vendor silicon will catch up, though we’ve yet to see it
>> happen.
>>
>>
>>
>> We’re entirely a home grown automation / orchestration stack, with many
>> years behind it.  Have a look at some talks we’ve given publicly for the
>> background in our ‘GOLF’ project.
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXOrdHfBqb0&t=
>>
>>
>>
>> > Has this ever been done before and with which hypervisors ?
>>
>> We had the same requirements as you 2-3 years ago.  Have we solved it?
>> TL;DR: not really!  We did make an interesting proof of concept though…
>>
>> Being largely a VMWare NSX house, we found VMWare closed to offering any
>> type of EVPN orchestrated VTEP extension into the physical fabric.  Quite
>> simply, its model of extending to physical VTEP is OVSDB.  That’s not
>> exactly compatible with an EVPN ToR, for various reasons.  So, we had the
>> idea that we’d build something which spoke both OVSDB (to NSX) and EVPN (to
>> the physical ToR).  The high level idea being, we’d use this to create
>> routes in EVPN if they were seen from OVSDB, and visa-versa, only we’d
>> maintain the original next-hop.  Kinda like an iBGP RR, only between 2
>> different control-planes.  Internally, we called it VxGlue.
>>
>>
>>
>> At a high level, it worked well in achieving nice loadbalancing of
>> traffic into the hypervisor.  It would no doubt scale fairly well too.  Is
>> it the right thing to do in a production network?  We decided not.  For
>> one, its very hard to keep up with pace of development of underlying VMWare
>> API’s.  As I say, this was a few years ago and things have moved on.  Maybe
>> we’ll revisit.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sandy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 04/03/2020, 21:03, "BESS on behalf of Gyan Mishra" <
>> [email protected] on behalf of [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you all for the feedback!!
>>
>>
>>
>> Our requirements we ar looking for a way to increase stability without
>> sacrificing bandwidth availability and convergence with Data Center host
>> connectivity to an existing vxlan fabric.  Our server traffic volume is
>> higher bandwidth East to West then North to South.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have a Cisco Nexus based vxlan evpn fabric with multi site feature
>> connecting all of our PODs intra DC and use BGP EVPN over an MPLS core for
>> DCI inter connect inter Data Center connectivity.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have orchestration via Cisco NSO and DCNM for network
>> programmability.  Typical Cisco shop..
>>
>>
>>
>> Our Data Center host attachment model as been with MLAG using Cisco’s
>> vPC.  That has been problematic having that L2 extension so we would like
>> to find a better way to maybe leverage our existing vxlan fabric and extend
>> to server hypervisor if at all possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> So with a hypervisor connected to two leaf switches in a vxlan fabric  it
>> sounds like it maybe possible with Cisco’s IETF standards based
>> implementation of vxlan overlay following NVO3 RFC 8365 and BGP EVPN RFC
>> 7432 that we could extend the fabric to server hypervisor.
>>
>>
>>
>> The question related to L3 ECMP versus L2 MLAG become moot as with
>> existing BGP EVPN load balancing procedures with EVPN type 4 default
>> gateway DF election we can achieve all active multi homed load balancing
>> from the hypervisor.  As was mentioned RFC 8365 since vxlan evpn does not
>> use ESI the local bias feature would have to be used for split horizon..
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course with the extension to the hypervisor we would use are existing
>> orchestration of the fabric to manage the server hypervisor layer.
>>
>>
>>
>> Has this ever been done before and with which hypervisors ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 7:58 PM Jeff Tantsura <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Gyan,
>>
>>
>>
>> On open source side of things - FRR supports EVPN on the host.
>>
>> Any vendor virtualized NOS would provide you the same (at least
>> Junos/cRPD or  XRv).
>>
>> EVPN ESI load-sharing eliminates need for MLAG (basic thought, the devil
>> is in the details :))
>>
>> ECMP vs LAG load-balancing - the algorithms supported are quite similar,
>> in some code bases actually the same, so this statement is not really
>> correct.
>>
>>
>>
>> Would be glad to better understand your requirements and help you!
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 2, 2020, at 16:00, Gyan Mishra <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Robert for the quick response
>>
>>
>>
>> Just thinking out loud -  I can see there maybe some advantages of
>> elimination of L2 to the host but the one major disadvantage is that BGP
>> multipath provides flow based uneven load balancing so not as desirable
>> from that standpoint compare to L3 MLAG bundle XOR Src/Dest/Port hash.
>>
>>
>>
>> Other big down side is most enterprises have the hypervisor managed by
>> server admins but if you run BGP now that ends up shifting to network.
>> More complicated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 6:39 PM Robert Raszuk <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Gyan,
>>
>>
>>
>> Similar architecture has been invented and shipped by Contrail team. Now
>> that project after they got acquired by Juniper has been renamed to
>> Tungsten Fabric https://tungsten.io/
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftungsten.io%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csandy.breeze%40eu.clara.net%7C5f875c0816c2433baeee08d7c07f7358%7Cf87a76403b944bbdb5fab4c15947cf56%7C0%7C0%7C637189525946984085&sdata=YOxnBjXir%2B%2Br4h2Emgz0%2BMkYxBrR75TpcLWqEuXiftY%3D&reserved=0>
>>  while
>> Juniper continued to keep the original project's name and commercial flavor
>> of it. No guarantees of any product quality at this point.
>>
>>
>>
>> Btw ,,, no need for VXLAN nor BGP to the host. The proposed above
>> alternative were well thought out and turned to work ways far more
>> efficient and practical if you zoom into details.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Robert.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 12:26 AM Gyan Mishra <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear BESS WG
>>
>>
>>
>> Is anyone aware of any IETF BGP development in the Data Center arena to
>> extend BGP VXLAN EVPN to a blade server Hypervisor making the Hypervisor
>> part of the  vxlan fabric.  This could eliminate use of MLAG on the leaf
>> switches and eliminate L2 completely from the vxlan fabric thereby
>> maximizing  stability.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>> --
>>
>> Gyan  Mishra
>>
>> Network Engineering & Technology
>>
>> Verizon
>>
>> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>>
>> Phone: 301 502-1347
>>
>> Email: [email protected] <[email protected]>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww..ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fbess&data=02%7C01%7Csandy.breeze%40eu.clara.net%7C5f875c0816c2433baeee08d7c07f7358%7Cf87a76403b944bbdb5fab4c15947cf56%7C0%7C0%7C637189525946994081&sdata=ioGt83d8%2FQ%2FUFiA9L0T%2BgrGmoDBiqADpUzw7kaRfxhI%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Gyan  Mishra
>>
>> Network Engineering & Technology
>>
>> Verizon
>>
>> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>>
>> Phone: 301 502-1347
>>
>> Email: [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BESS mailing list
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>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww..ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fbess&data=02%7C01%7Csandy.breeze%40eu.clara.net%7C5f875c0816c2433baeee08d7c07f7358%7Cf87a76403b944bbdb5fab4c15947cf56%7C0%7C0%7C637189525947004076&sdata=CEduzdoebDfvYoDdqSQJEafpKGKycyM5YpCYOYviX%2FE%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Gyan  Mishra
>>
>> Network Engineering & Technology
>>
>> Verizon
>>
>> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>>
>> Phone: 301 502-1347
>>
>> Email: [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
>
> Gyan  Mishra
>
> Network Engineering & Technology
>
> Verizon
>
> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>
> Phone: 301 502-1347
>
> Email: [email protected]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BESS mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>
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