Hi Tony

I am actually a member of RIFT, as the WG charter description
was intriguing so I joined - to learn more about the RIFT technology.

I downloaded the draft but never made it through as its a lengthy 100+ page
draft.  Now I really have to read it.

Yes that would be great.  Please unicast me on [email protected].

Kind regards

Gyan

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 11:31 AM Tony Przygienda <[email protected]> wrote:

> Gyan, the technology that you look for exists and is about to go standards
> RFC (i.e. _scalable_ L3 multihoming to the host including bandwidth
> load-balancing and many other things that need consideration in such case,
> e.g. host asic table scalability). Please look @
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rift-rift/  If you need more
> info/code, more than happy to talk out of band
>
> thanks
>
> -- tony
>
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 2:04 PM Gyan Mishra <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Sandy
>>
>> Thank you for the feedback on your use cases.
>>
>> For now will remain L2 MLAG to the host.
>>
>> BESS WG,
>>
>> If anyone hears of any new developments on vxlan fabric extension to
>> hypervisor and any vendors supporting even 3rd party open source
>> implementations of fabric extensions please reach out to me.
>>
>> As an aside when reading RFC 8365 NVO3 section 7  it kind of gets excited
>> by the subject heading “single homed NVE residing in Hypervisor” or section
>> 8 MH NVE in TOR server - thinking that maybe fabric extension to hypervisor
>> does actually exist but of course the let down that no vendor supports it.
>>
>> It does seem there would be a lot of customers wanting this fabric
>> extension to hypervisor capabilities for MH load balancing- and very
>> surprising that it does not exist.
>>
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8365#section-7
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Gyan Mishra
>> Verizon
>> Cell 301 502-1347
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 4:57 PM Sandy Breeze <[email protected]
>> <[email protected]>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Gyan,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here, we use a mix of NXOS & Arista EOS for leaf and spine, ASR9k DCI
>>> doing L2 + L3 VTEP and stitching to MPLS EVPN / traditional VPNv4/6.  We
>>> also confess to pockets of proprietary NXOS vPC, and, pockets of Arista
>>> ESI-MH.  Incidentally, the older Broadcom NXOS boxes do have ESI-MH
>>> capabilities and that worked alright.  Customers, like us, have been long
>>> promised the vendor silicon will catch up, though we’ve yet to see it
>>> happen.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We’re entirely a home grown automation / orchestration stack, with many
>>> years behind it.  Have a look at some talks we’ve given publicly for the
>>> background in our ‘GOLF’ project.
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXOrdHfBqb0&t=
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > Has this ever been done before and with which hypervisors ?
>>>
>>> We had the same requirements as you 2-3 years ago.  Have we solved it?
>>> TL;DR: not really!  We did make an interesting proof of concept though…
>>>
>>> Being largely a VMWare NSX house, we found VMWare closed to offering any
>>> type of EVPN orchestrated VTEP extension into the physical fabric.  Quite
>>> simply, its model of extending to physical VTEP is OVSDB.  That’s not
>>> exactly compatible with an EVPN ToR, for various reasons.  So, we had the
>>> idea that we’d build something which spoke both OVSDB (to NSX) and EVPN (to
>>> the physical ToR).  The high level idea being, we’d use this to create
>>> routes in EVPN if they were seen from OVSDB, and visa-versa, only we’d
>>> maintain the original next-hop.  Kinda like an iBGP RR, only between 2
>>> different control-planes.  Internally, we called it VxGlue.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At a high level, it worked well in achieving nice loadbalancing of
>>> traffic into the hypervisor.  It would no doubt scale fairly well too.  Is
>>> it the right thing to do in a production network?  We decided not.  For
>>> one, its very hard to keep up with pace of development of underlying VMWare
>>> API’s.  As I say, this was a few years ago and things have moved on.  Maybe
>>> we’ll revisit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sandy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 04/03/2020, 21:03, "BESS on behalf of Gyan Mishra" <
>>> [email protected] on behalf of [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you all for the feedback!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Our requirements we ar looking for a way to increase stability without
>>> sacrificing bandwidth availability and convergence with Data Center host
>>> connectivity to an existing vxlan fabric.  Our server traffic volume is
>>> higher bandwidth East to West then North to South.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have a Cisco Nexus based vxlan evpn fabric with multi site feature
>>> connecting all of our PODs intra DC and use BGP EVPN over an MPLS core for
>>> DCI inter connect inter Data Center connectivity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have orchestration via Cisco NSO and DCNM for network
>>> programmability.  Typical Cisco shop..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Our Data Center host attachment model as been with MLAG using Cisco’s
>>> vPC.  That has been problematic having that L2 extension so we would like
>>> to find a better way to maybe leverage our existing vxlan fabric and extend
>>> to server hypervisor if at all possible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So with a hypervisor connected to two leaf switches in a vxlan fabric
>>>  it sounds like it maybe possible with Cisco’s IETF standards based
>>> implementation of vxlan overlay following NVO3 RFC 8365 and BGP EVPN RFC
>>> 7432 that we could extend the fabric to server hypervisor.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The question related to L3 ECMP versus L2 MLAG become moot as with
>>> existing BGP EVPN load balancing procedures with EVPN type 4 default
>>> gateway DF election we can achieve all active multi homed load balancing
>>> from the hypervisor.  As was mentioned RFC 8365 since vxlan evpn does not
>>> use ESI the local bias feature would have to be used for split horizon...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course with the extension to the hypervisor we would use are existing
>>> orchestration of the fabric to manage the server hypervisor layer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Has this ever been done before and with which hypervisors ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gyan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 7:58 PM Jeff Tantsura <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Gyan,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On open source side of things - FRR supports EVPN on the host.
>>>
>>> Any vendor virtualized NOS would provide you the same (at least
>>> Junos/cRPD or  XRv).
>>>
>>> EVPN ESI load-sharing eliminates need for MLAG (basic thought, the devil
>>> is in the details :))
>>>
>>> ECMP vs LAG load-balancing - the algorithms supported are quite similar,
>>> in some code bases actually the same, so this statement is not really
>>> correct.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Would be glad to better understand your requirements and help you!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 2, 2020, at 16:00, Gyan Mishra <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Robert for the quick response
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just thinking out loud -  I can see there maybe some advantages of
>>> elimination of L2 to the host but the one major disadvantage is that BGP
>>> multipath provides flow based uneven load balancing so not as desirable
>>> from that standpoint compare to L3 MLAG bundle XOR Src/Dest/Port hash.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Other big down side is most enterprises have the hypervisor managed by
>>> server admins but if you run BGP now that ends up shifting to network.
>>> More complicated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gyan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 6:39 PM Robert Raszuk <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Gyan,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Similar architecture has been invented and shipped by Contrail team. Now
>>> that project after they got acquired by Juniper has been renamed to
>>> Tungsten Fabric https://tungsten.io/
>>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftungsten.io%2F&data=02%7C01%7Csandy.breeze%40eu.clara.net%7C5f875c0816c2433baeee08d7c07f7358%7Cf87a76403b944bbdb5fab4c15947cf56%7C0%7C0%7C637189525946984085&sdata=YOxnBjXir%2B%2Br4h2Emgz0%2BMkYxBrR75TpcLWqEuXiftY%3D&reserved=0>
>>>  while
>>> Juniper continued to keep the original project's name and commercial flavor
>>> of it. No guarantees of any product quality at this point.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Btw ,,, no need for VXLAN nor BGP to the host. The proposed above
>>> alternative were well thought out and turned to work ways far more
>>> efficient and practical if you zoom into details.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Robert.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 12:26 AM Gyan Mishra <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear BESS WG
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is anyone aware of any IETF BGP development in the Data Center arena to
>>> extend BGP VXLAN EVPN to a blade server Hypervisor making the Hypervisor
>>> part of the  vxlan fabric.  This could eliminate use of MLAG on the leaf
>>> switches and eliminate L2 completely from the vxlan fabric thereby
>>> maximizing  stability.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gyan
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Gyan  Mishra
>>>
>>> Network Engineering & Technology
>>>
>>> Verizon
>>>
>>> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>>>
>>> Phone: 301 502-1347
>>>
>>> Email: [email protected] <[email protected]>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BESS mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fbess&data=02%7C01%7Csandy.breeze%40eu.clara.net%7C5f875c0816c2433baeee08d7c07f7358%7Cf87a76403b944bbdb5fab4c15947cf56%7C0%7C0%7C637189525946994081&sdata=ioGt83d8%2FQ%2FUFiA9L0T%2BgrGmoDBiqADpUzw7kaRfxhI%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Gyan  Mishra
>>>
>>> Network Engineering & Technology
>>>
>>> Verizon
>>>
>>> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>>>
>>> Phone: 301 502-1347
>>>
>>> Email: [email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BESS mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fbess&data=02%7C01%7Csandy.breeze%40eu.clara.net%7C5f875c0816c2433baeee08d7c07f7358%7Cf87a76403b944bbdb5fab4c15947cf56%7C0%7C0%7C637189525947004076&sdata=CEduzdoebDfvYoDdqSQJEafpKGKycyM5YpCYOYviX%2FE%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Gyan  Mishra
>>>
>>> Network Engineering & Technology
>>>
>>> Verizon
>>>
>>> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>>>
>>> Phone: 301 502-1347
>>>
>>> Email: [email protected]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>>
>> Gyan  Mishra
>>
>> Network Engineering & Technology
>>
>> Verizon
>>
>> Silver Spring, MD 20904
>>
>> Phone: 301 502-1347
>>
>> Email: [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BESS mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
>>
>

-- 

Gyan  Mishra

Network Engineering & Technology

Verizon

Silver Spring, MD 20904

Phone: 301 502-1347

Email: [email protected]
_______________________________________________
BESS mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess

Reply via email to