Ric wrote: > I agree that the System install option should behave correctly > however it is possible for multiple users to share a custom install
Thanks for the link. At the moment, I'm only concerned with the out-of-the-box experience. J being a development system, a user can make it do whatever he wants. What I'm concerned with is what it does without him "making" it do anything. This might be different if the J community were larger, and attracting new users wasn't as important. > there might be issues when the system attempts to save snapshots? Worked OK for me. At least, no error messages. I haven't played with snapshots yet (don't know how). > AFAIK the JHS ide is functional out-of-the-box including > an icon (in start menu). That worked ok for me too. I was just making recommendations for what the final system should look like (most people will expect a GUI IDE, because that's still standard; so I'm suggesting we meet those expectations, but give the JHS option for more advanced users, or others who want it). > Most of the Addon installs/updates should be possible using > the JHS ide GUI if preferred. I don't want the user to have to take any manual steps, console-based or graphically, to get a working system out-of-the-box. It would be nice if the user got the most updated everything on day 1, rather than working with out-of-date (perhaps years out-of-date) scripts without knowing it, and hitting issues that are resolved in newer versions. Presently, JAL is small enough that there's little reason not to download the whole thing by default. > install 'all' Thanks! Will this do updates in addition to fresh installs (e.g. if I have the Addon foo installed already, will install 'all' bring it up to date)? > My preference would be to retain the option of a minimalistic > install (without all addons or Gtk binaries) as well. If we do this, JSoftware needs to maintain explicitly, step-by-step instructions for getting a full, working, up-to-date system, all in one place, and advertised prominently with the download (perhaps when the download completes it pops up a [updated!] HTML page describing all the steps needed). And if these instructions are going to be maintained in English and carried by the installer anyway, why not maintain them in an executable format and have the installer taken? The executable format will even be easier to maintain! I don't get this desire for a minimalistic install. If it's to minimize download time, why? Most users are going to have to spend (even more) time and bandwidth downloading the missing pieces anyway. And honestly, with today's bandwidths, downloading everything (*everything*: J, JHS, JGTK, GTK, help, a copy of the Wiki, a copy of all the Forums going back forever, hell, a copy of comp.lang.apl going back forever) would really not be a burden, time-wise. Download time and bandwidth should not be a consideration here. If it's to take the burden of a full installer off JSoftware by putting it on its users, I totally disagree with that concept. -Dan PS: Many people on these Forums express interest in getting J in front of kids. That's never been a goal of mine, but consider how the current situation will impact it. Scenario A: "Download J here. Install it (pick "Single User"). Now click the first icon that showed up in your Start menu. There J is! Now type 2+2". Scenario B: "Download J here. Install it (pick "Single User"). Now click the JHS icon that showed up in your Start menu. No, ignore that small black window. Now open your browser. Now type http://127.0.0.1:65001/jijx# into the URL bar. You might want to bookmark that. Now click the "link" menu. No, on the menu bar inside the web page that says "J HTTP server", not the browser's menu (no, I don't know why it's called "link"). Now click the "pacman" item. No, it's not the game. Just pay attention. Click "upgradeable". Click "base library". Click "upgrade selected". Now click the "Not installed" button. Click on gui/GTK. Hit install. OK, now hit "Not installed" again. Click ide/gtk. Hit install. OK. Now go to your Start menu, right-click on the "jcon701" icon. Hit copy. Right-click on the J64-701 folder icon, hit "paste". Open the Start menu again, right click on "jcon701 - Copy". Hit "properties". In the Target field, type gtkide at the end. No, don't erase what's there, just add gtkide to the end. OK, now on the general tab, type J GTK into the name field. Hit OK. Now, go to your Start menu again. Click the J GTK icon. There J is! Now type 2+2." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
