I¹ve almost hit squirrels and chipmunks quite often on the SW Path, and a
friend of mine got in a wreck on the path when a squirrel got itself
entwined in his bike wheel on the path.  However, I¹m not sure that there
would be much danger from these two animals at night.  They are out in the
daytime.  And they do dart out.

Mary Mullen


On 9/28/12 3:20 PM, "Robert F. Nagel" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Right, I left that out because it seems to go without saying that my proposal
> will not be as bright as yours. But, the question should be is whether it's
> bright enough or a whole lot brighter than nothing. There's a hornet's nest of
> opposition to your proposal because it's too bright. It's overkill. If
> somebody would rather take the sidewalk because it's brighter, they'll still
> have that option. I've never heard of roadkill on the bikepaths. Are there
> really bike-animal accidents happening because of animal dart-outs? The
> bunnies I've seen seem to be pretty well-adapted to urban living and don't
> seem to have a problem getting across the path safely. And if things keep
> going the way the are, there won't be any lights and won't that be a whole lot
> less safe than some subtle lights?
> ---
> 
> 
> Robert F. Nagel, Attorney
> Law Offices of Robert Nagel
> [email protected]
> www.nagel-law.com <http://www.nagel-law.com>
> Thirty on the Square, 10th Floor
> 30 W. Mifflin St., Suite 1001
> Madison, WI  53703
> 608-255-1501 office
> 608-255-1504 fax
> 608-438-9501 cell
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Robbie Webber <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> Robert seems to have left out part of my answer to him:
>> 
>> Besides being more expensive and possibly prone to damage, whether
>> intentional or not,
>> 
>> 3. This area has basically no ambient light (from streetlights, houses,
>> businesses, etc.) Smaller lights would not provide sufficient illumination to
>> light the path and provide a feeling of safety. The path you mention has
>> considerable ambient light from other sources, so lights to illuminate the
>> path and general area are not as necessary.
>> 
>> Robert had mentioned the path that runs along the Yahara River. That area has
>> considerable ambient light: businesses, street lights, lights in the mooring
>> area on the river, park lights towards Lake Monona, etc. The SW Path has none
>> of that. This also addresses one of the other suggestions on this list: light
>> the edges of the path.
>> 
>> Lighting the ASPHALT  or GROUND does not provide the appropriate amount of
>> light to see the area adjacent to the path - where animals or humans may dart
>> out suddenly. We do not use runway lights along the sides of sidewalks and
>> streets. We light the area so that people walking or driving can see the area
>> immediately off the sidewalk or street. This is the reason I use a
>> high-powered light with a broad beam pattern: The LED lights, regardless of
>> how many LEDs they add, simply do not provide the field of view that I want
>> while biking in a dark area. (A broad beam pattern also makes me more visible
>> to drivers on side streets as I approach, but that is a different issue.)
>> 
>> Most of our neighbors, friends, and family would freak out if they had to
>> walk down a dark street, why are we assuming that biking or walking down a
>> dark path - with even fewer people around to provide a sense of security -
>> would cause any less stress? Those of you with less-confident bicyclists in
>> your lives should ask those dear ones to go out, alone, after dark on this
>> path. Once your family member, best friend, SO, or other more-timid bicyclist
>> returns from the solo trip, ask him/her how it felt to be on the dark path
>> alone, even with a good light. 
>> 
>> I think this might change your perspective a bit. I know one male friend
>> definitely changed his mind after thinking of how his wife - definitely not
>> as confident on a bike as he is - would react to that scenario.
>> 
>> 
>> Robbie Webber
>> Transportation Policy Analyst
>> State Smart Transportation Initiative
>> www.ssti.us <http://www.ssti.us>
>> 608-263-9984 (o)
>> [email protected]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Robert F. Nagel <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>> Sounds very sensible to me. What I'm hearing is that the city wants to
>>> scatter some bright lights because they think it will be cheaper than the
>>> subdued lighting, which would require more poles to provide adequate
>>> lighting. They also claim that the shorter poles will be vandalized and hit
>>> by snow plows. Why a shorter pole with subdued light would be more likely to
>>> be vandalized than a taller pole with bright light that the neighbors hate
>>> is totally beyond me. And, I don't think anybody would object to
>>> incorporating flags in the design to give additional notice to the snow plow
>>> drivers. 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Robert F. Nagel, Attorney
>>> Law Offices of Robert Nagel
>>> [email protected]
>>> www.nagel-law.com <http://www.nagel-law.com>
>>> Thirty on the Square, 10th Floor
>>> 30 W. Mifflin St., Suite 1001
>>> Madison, WI  53703
>>> 608-255-1501 <tel:608-255-1501>  office
>>> 608-255-1504 <tel:608-255-1504>  fax
>>> 608-438-9501 <tel:608-438-9501>  cell
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:43 PM, George Perkins <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> When I originally wondered (on this list, to my Alder, and to the City
>>>> project site) why the city hasn¹t considered a design that follows the DOT
>>>> guidelines for lighting a bike and pedestrian path, I never really did get
>>>> a satisfactory answer. The City may have had this discussion internally,
>>>> but for whatever reason has not made it a public discussion. If the SW path
>>>> is going to be given lighting, then let¹s do it right. The powerpoint
>>>> presentation on the project web site only off-handedly indicates bollard
>>>> style lamp posts are a maintenance problem, but doesn¹t substantiate that
>>>> concern with facts and figures. If there are valid reasons why DOT lighting
>>>> guidelines don¹t make sense from an engineering (physical and social), I¹d
>>>> like to hear them and the city should lobby to have the DOT guidelines
>>>> updated accordingly. Perhaps a good lighting design would cost more and
>>>> budgets are tight. Let¹s not do it wrong just to spend the money in this
>>>> year¹s budget and wind up with an inferior (or unsafe) result. If doing it
>>>> right costs more, maybe the path can be lit in stages, do what you can with
>>>> the money on hand, leave the rest until later?
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bikies mailing list
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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