Robbie,
Clearly, the compromise that would improve the use and enjoyment by neighbors
of the corridor is something you're not grasping. In obvious disagreement with
your illogical assertion, light does not remove risk from collisions...bad
judgement/driving/decisions does. There are multitudes of car and other
collisions in broad daylight. Clearly a lit path..even subtlely/respectfully
and strategically...would be a marked improvement for users to see each other
and increase enjoyment and use of this tremendous asset...and for those
entering it, there would be enough light to see other users....and due to the
lack of bright street like highway lights...speeds would be a bit slower and
the path less bright to nearby homes.
Someone smart once said, the art of public policy is compromise...we should see
if that's possible here. I'm not convinced that's happened yet....and don't
feel like I'm the only one.
Troy Thiel
________________________________
From: Robbie Webber <[email protected]>
To: Bikies <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Bikies] Fwd: SW Commuter Bike Path Lighting and WisDOT Wisconsin
Bicycle Facility Design Manual
Robert seems to have left out part of my answer to him:
Besides being more expensive and possibly prone to damage, whether intentional
or not,
3. This area has basically no ambient light (from streetlights, houses,
businesses, etc.) Smaller lights would not provide sufficient illumination to
light the path and provide a feeling of safety. The path you mention has
considerable ambient light from other sources, so lights to illuminate the path
and general area are not as necessary.
Robert had mentioned the path that runs along the Yahara River. That area has
considerable ambient light: businesses, street lights, lights in the mooring
area on the river, park lights towards Lake Monona, etc. The SW Path has none
of that. This also addresses one of the other suggestions on this list: light
the edges of the path.
Lighting the ASPHALT or GROUND does not provide the appropriate amount of
light to see the area adjacent to the path - where animals or humans may dart
out suddenly. We do not use runway lights along the sides of sidewalks and
streets. We light the area so that people walking or driving can see the area
immediately off the sidewalk or street. This is the reason I use a high-powered
light with a broad beam pattern: The LED lights, regardless of how many LEDs
they add, simply do not provide the field of view that I want while biking in a
dark area. (A broad beam pattern also makes me more visible to drivers on side
streets as I approach, but that is a different issue.)
Most of our neighbors, friends, and family would freak out if they had to walk
down a dark street, why are we assuming that biking or walking down a dark path
- with even fewer people around to provide a sense of security - would cause
any less stress? Those of you with less-confident bicyclists in your lives
should ask those dear ones to go out, alone, after dark on this path. Once your
family member, best friend, SO, or other more-timid bicyclist returns from the
solo trip, ask him/her how it felt to be on the dark path alone, even with a
good light.
I think this might change your perspective a bit. I know one male friend
definitely changed his mind after thinking of how his wife - definitely not as
confident on a bike as he is - would react to that scenario.
Robbie Webber
Transportation Policy Analyst
State Smart Transportation Initiative
www.ssti.us
608-263-9984 (o)
[email protected]
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Robert F. Nagel <[email protected]> wrote:
Sounds very sensible to me. What I'm hearing is that the city wants to scatter
some bright lights because they think it will be cheaper than the subdued
lighting, which would require more poles to provide adequate lighting. They
also claim that the shorter poles will be vandalized and hit by snow plows. Why
a shorter pole with subdued light would be more likely to be vandalized than a
taller pole with bright light that the neighbors hate is totally beyond me.
And, I don't think anybody would object to incorporating flags in the design to
give additional notice to the snow plow drivers.
>
>---
>
>
>
>Robert F. Nagel, Attorney
>Law Offices of Robert Nagel
>[email protected]
>www.nagel-law.com
>Thirty on the Square, 10th Floor
>30 W. Mifflin St., Suite 1001
>Madison, WI 53703
>608-255-1501 office
>608-255-1504 fax
>608-438-9501 cell
>
>
>
>On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:43 PM, George Perkins <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>When I originally wondered (on this list, to my Alder, and to the City project
>site) why the city hasn’t considered a design that follows the DOT guidelines
>for lighting a bike and pedestrian path, I never really did get a satisfactory
>answer. The City may have had this discussion internally, but for whatever
>reason has not made it a public discussion. If the SW path is going to be
>given lighting, then let’s do it right. The powerpoint presentation on the
>project web site only off-handedly indicates bollard style lamp posts are a
>maintenance problem, but doesn’t substantiate that concern with facts and
>figures. If there are valid reasons why DOT lighting guidelines don’t make
>sense from an engineering (physical and social), I’d like to hear them and the
>city should lobby to have the DOT guidelines updated accordingly. Perhaps a
>good lighting design would cost more and budgets are tight. Let’s not do it
>wrong just to spend the money in this
year’s budget and wind up with an inferior (or unsafe) result. If doing it
right costs more, maybe the path can be lit in stages, do what you can with the
money on hand, leave the rest until later?
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Bikies mailing list
>>[email protected]
>>http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Bikies mailing list
>[email protected]
>http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
>
>
_______________________________________________
Bikies mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
_______________________________________________
Bikies mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
