I said I wasn't indifferent about the scientific method, but the basis for keeping the audible turn signals is not that they have been proven to eliminate the risk of a turning bus mowing somebody down. There is still a risk. Anecdotal evidence is offered that they do not reduce the risk. Common sense suggests they reduce the risk. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that they reduce the risk.
Here's a little more anecdotal evidence. I often cross Mifflin Street near Carroll and State streets. Or Carroll Street near that intersection. Or State Street near that intersection. I'll admit that I don't always wait for a "WALK" light. If I hear the audible signal of a bus turning left onto Carroll or turning right onto State, that will certainly deter me. The top of State Street, being closed to most private motor vehicles, doesn't cry out, "Watch out! Busy street!" It may seem to a visitor to be merely a big bike path. Busses are really out-of-scale with it. You may look down it and see no traffic. You may look up it and see no traffic. But, there might be a big bus coming hard down the hill on Mifflin, about to take a right onto it. There may be nothing to see until it's too late, but hearing the audible signal might just give that regular or that visitor pause that they wouldn't otherwise consider. Since the cost to install these has already been incurred, shouldn't the burden be on the light sleepers to prove the ineffectiveness of the audible signals before they are abandoned? I'll rephrase that: the burden to prove the ineffectiveness of the audible signals should be on the light sleepers before they are abandoned. I do not believe they have met their burden. --- Robert F. Nagel, Attorney Law Offices of Robert Nagel [email protected] www.nagel-law.com Thirty on the Square, 10th Floor 30 W. Mifflin St., Suite 1001 Madison, WI 53703 608-255-1501 office 608-255-1504 fax 608-438-9501 cell On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 7:11 PM, Michael Rewey <[email protected]> wrote: > The pedestrian my have been inattentive, but she was crossing WITH a WALK > LIGHT and > got hit from behind. The real culprit was the mirror bracket which caused > a blind spot, which > the drivers were trained to be aware of. Also the bus camera showed that > the pedestrian > was clearly visible prior to the bus turning left. Heavy ped intersection > - bus driver be aware. > > After the death the bus folks retro-fitted all of their mirrors so they > are now supported from > the top - eliminating the blind spot. What took metro so long to do that > when they were > aware of the problem I have no idea. Foreign buses have had top supported > mirror mounts > for quite a long time. > > And regarding the sound? I had no idea it was a turning warning until > this recent discussion. > I thought it meant the bus was stopped and loading and unloading > passengers. So for the lay > person the sound did not have the intended meaning anyway. > > my 2 cents... > > Mike Rewey > > > On 17 Jun 2015 at 16:43, tim wong wrote: > > I agree the train horns are far more obnoxious than the bus beeps, but > there are so many > more of the bus beeps. I don't think anyone proved that they were > effective at what they > were claiming to do. Saying that no one has been run over since is not > good "scientific > method." A poorly trained bus driver ran over a very inattentive > pedestrian, and the rest of us > have to hear the irritating beeps numerous times a day. > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Robert F. Nagel <[email protected]> > wrote: > I'm not indifferent about noise. I'm not indifferent about safety. I'm > not indifferent about > the scientific method. On the other hand, it's hard to believe that > Metro just folded on > the audible turn signals so easily. > A pedestrian was killed by a bus turning left at University and Lake > streets. > > > http://host.madison.com/news/local/crime_and_courts/pedestrian-dies-after-being-hit-by- > metro-bus/article_af7db33c-9cdc-11e0-8558-001cc4c002e0.html > > http://host.madison.com/news/local/crime_and_courts/uw-library-employee-killed-by-bus- > > remembered-as-great-storyteller/article_f658af00-9dbd-11e0-a246-001cc4c002e0.html > Sometime after that, Metro implements an audible turn signal to warn of > busses turning. > Nobody is > Robert F. Nagel, Attorney > Law Offices of Robert Nagel > [email protected] > www.nagel-law.com > Thirty on the Square, 10th Floor > 30 W. Mifflin St., Suite 1001 > Madison, WI 53703 > 608-255-1501 office > 608-255-1504 fax > 608-438-9501 cell > > > > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 10:13 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > Many of you will be glad to hear that we no longer have to hear the > > bleeping buses. > > Now all the other bus and urban noise confusion is the only thing > left to > > deal with :) > > john > > During the same errand by bicycle, I passed by a bus using the audible > signal, and within minutes was on the east isthmus bikie highway, > parallel > to railway tracks and alongside a train using its whistle.Guess which > one was intrusive and audibly painful and which one barely had a > negative > effect at all (indeed, no negative effect). > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > -- > "If we continue to consume the world until there's no more to consume, > then there's going to > come a day, sure as hell, when our children or their children or their > children's children are > going to look back on us--on you and me--and say to themselves, 'My God, > what kind of > monsters were these people?'" > > --Daniel Quinn > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org >
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