At this point I am going to agree to disagree.
WeAreAllMechanics.com [email protected] Stay connected- Follow WAAM on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/We.Are.All.Mechanics> *"How can we learn from our mistakes if we don't first acknowledge them?" * On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 9:40 PM, Robert F. Nagel <[email protected]> wrote: > I said I wasn't indifferent about the scientific method, but the basis for > keeping the audible turn signals is not that they have been proven to > eliminate the risk of a turning bus mowing somebody down. There is still a > risk. Anecdotal evidence is offered that they do not reduce the risk. > Common sense suggests they reduce the risk. There is plenty of anecdotal > evidence that they reduce the risk. > > Here's a little more anecdotal evidence. I often cross Mifflin Street near > Carroll and State streets. Or Carroll Street near that intersection. Or > State Street near that intersection. I'll admit that I don't always wait > for a "WALK" light. If I hear the audible signal of a bus turning left onto > Carroll or turning right onto State, that will certainly deter me. The top > of State Street, being closed to most private motor vehicles, doesn't cry > out, "Watch out! Busy street!" It may seem to a visitor to be merely a big > bike path. Busses are really out-of-scale with it. You may look down it and > see no traffic. You may look up it and see no traffic. But, there might be > a big bus coming hard down the hill on Mifflin, about to take a right onto > it. There may be nothing to see until it's too late, but hearing the > audible signal might just give that regular or that visitor pause that they > wouldn't otherwise consider. > > Since the cost to install these has already been incurred, shouldn't the > burden be on the light sleepers to prove the ineffectiveness of the audible > signals before they are abandoned? I'll rephrase that: the burden to prove > the ineffectiveness of the audible signals should be on the light sleepers > before they are abandoned. I do not believe they have met their burden. > > --- > > Robert F. Nagel, Attorney > Law Offices of Robert Nagel > [email protected] > www.nagel-law.com > Thirty on the Square, 10th Floor > 30 W. Mifflin St., Suite 1001 > Madison, WI 53703 > 608-255-1501 office > 608-255-1504 fax > 608-438-9501 cell > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 7:11 PM, Michael Rewey <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> The pedestrian my have been inattentive, but she was crossing WITH a WALK >> LIGHT and >> got hit from behind. The real culprit was the mirror bracket which >> caused a blind spot, which >> the drivers were trained to be aware of. Also the bus camera showed >> that the pedestrian >> was clearly visible prior to the bus turning left. Heavy ped >> intersection - bus driver be aware. >> >> After the death the bus folks retro-fitted all of their mirrors so they >> are now supported from >> the top - eliminating the blind spot. What took metro so long to do that >> when they were >> aware of the problem I have no idea. Foreign buses have had top >> supported mirror mounts >> for quite a long time. >> >> And regarding the sound? I had no idea it was a turning warning until >> this recent discussion. >> I thought it meant the bus was stopped and loading and unloading >> passengers. So for the lay >> person the sound did not have the intended meaning anyway. >> >> my 2 cents... >> >> Mike Rewey >> >> >> On 17 Jun 2015 at 16:43, tim wong wrote: >> >> I agree the train horns are far more obnoxious than the bus beeps, but >> there are so many >> more of the bus beeps. I don't think anyone proved that they were >> effective at what they >> were claiming to do. Saying that no one has been run over since is not >> good "scientific >> method." A poorly trained bus driver ran over a very inattentive >> pedestrian, and the rest of us >> have to hear the irritating beeps numerous times a day. >> >> On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Robert F. Nagel <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> I'm not indifferent about noise. I'm not indifferent about safety. >> I'm not indifferent about >> the scientific method. On the other hand, it's hard to believe that >> Metro just folded on >> the audible turn signals so easily. >> A pedestrian was killed by a bus turning left at University and Lake >> streets. >> >> >> http://host.madison.com/news/local/crime_and_courts/pedestrian-dies-after-being-hit-by- >> metro-bus/article_af7db33c-9cdc-11e0-8558-001cc4c002e0.html >> <http://host.madison.com/news/local/crime_and_courts/pedestrian-dies-after-being-hit-by-metro-bus/article_af7db33c-9cdc-11e0-8558-001cc4c002e0.html> >> >> http://host.madison.com/news/local/crime_and_courts/uw-library-employee-killed-by-bus- >> >> remembered-as-great-storyteller/article_f658af00-9dbd-11e0-a246-001cc4c002e0.html >> <http://host.madison.com/news/local/crime_and_courts/uw-library-employee-killed-by-bus-remembered-as-great-storyteller/article_f658af00-9dbd-11e0-a246-001cc4c002e0.html> >> Sometime after that, Metro implements an audible turn signal to warn of >> busses turning. >> Nobody is >> Robert F. Nagel, Attorney >> Law Offices of Robert Nagel >> [email protected] >> www.nagel-law.com >> Thirty on the Square, 10th Floor >> 30 W. Mifflin St., Suite 1001 >> Madison, WI 53703 >> 608-255-1501 office >> 608-255-1504 fax >> 608-438-9501 cell >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 10:13 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Many of you will be glad to hear that we no longer have to hear the >> > bleeping buses. >> > Now all the other bus and urban noise confusion is the only thing >> left to >> > deal with :) >> > john >> >> During the same errand by bicycle, I passed by a bus using the audible >> signal, and within minutes was on the east isthmus bikie highway, >> parallel >> to railway tracks and alongside a train using its whistle.Guess which >> one was intrusive and audibly painful and which one barely had a >> negative >> effect at all (indeed, no negative effect). >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bikies mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bikies mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org >> >> >> -- >> "If we continue to consume the world until there's no more to consume, >> then there's going to >> come a day, sure as hell, when our children or their children or their >> children's children are >> going to look back on us--on you and me--and say to themselves, 'My God, >> what kind of >> monsters were these people?'" >> >> --Daniel Quinn >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bikies mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > >
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