Yes they do! > On 24 Jan 2023, at 02:03, Jude DaShiell <[email protected]> wrote: > > news servers use nntp if I remember properly. > > > > Jude <jdashiel at panix dot com> "There are four boxes to be used in > defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > > . > >> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote: >> >> You'd be surprised at how many of those protocols are still in use. In fact, >> most web browsers simply quietly redirect to the appropriate service these >> days, without even telling the user they're doing so. Unless you >> specifically >> look in the browser url, you'd never know you're on a gopher server, or an >> ftp >> site. Add to that, most ftp sites now have http connections, (but can still >> be >> accessed via ftp), same with news servers, though they have their own >> protocol. I subscribe to a news server, and there's still thousands of posts >> every month in hundreds of thousands of groups, but most folks use their web >> browser to hit those servers. I never did like the way web browsers offered >> up nntp feeds, so I still use a nntp client (trn, or rn depending on where I >> access it from), adn that works best for me. Your mileage will likely vary. >> >> >>> On 1/23/2023 6:16 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote: >>> Well half of that is old now. >>> >>> I do have an ftp client but I don't need to access it. >>> >>> Like the old news groups of yesteryear most of this stuff may still exist >>> but just like bbs systems they are rarely if ever used. >>> >>> Most things are via the web and web interface which is whateveryone uses. >>> >>> As for listserves with google groups, facebook groups, groups.io and other >>> cloud interface nets list serves at least the traditional ones aren't that >>> advantageous. >>> >>> You'd have to exist in the early 90s to get online. >>> >>> As I started in 1996 I did do ndws groups, ftps and list serves and yes muds >>> and some bbss units but. >>> >>> But most of that doesn't apply now. >>> >>> Even now unless you have a website the closest I get to ftp is ftp over >>> https in fact all the modern brousers don't allow non https or ftp or >>> aanything not secure so yeah. >>> >>> I used to fileshare and hack with huge massive ftp servers mostly at home >>> downloading loads of created and legal/alegal content. >>> >>> But with all the new rules, traffic use, etc pluss the rust string incident >>> and victom incidents on the blindness community, not to mention blind extra >>> most of that is gone. >>> >>> Even the traditional servers that run don't exist and for those that do not >>> for standard users. >>> >>> 99.9% of my work is via https, web, non https, cloud server or something >>> like that on windows. >>> >>> I don't have have no plans to but I guess if you really move down you can >>> access even darknet. >>> >>> But then I really don't go beyond my small group of serfice internet at all. >>> >>> And I don't much mind. >>> >>> There was a time before covid when I was in my 20s, and yunger, a fighter of >>> the system, I even was a small time music and software pirate but that was >>> before. >>> >>> There is almost no need especially with subscription services, artest >>> created tracks opensource and a host of other things to engage in the >>> battles of my youth. >>> >>> Now its not all dead if you want to fight but the net caught up with the >>> fight and I don't care for that sort of battle anymore. >>> >>> It was fun and I enjoyed it but I have no need now and am pritty much >>> retired. >>> >>> I was never a serious player anyway. >>> >>> Anyway there are people that still do this on secure systems in fact if you >>> look at some of their faqs on the fight you really need to have different >>> systems and things to fight now its not a yung dabbling universe. >>> >>> If you don't then yeah down below someone can just get you. >>> >>> Others can fight as far as I care now. >>> >>> >>> On 24/01/2023 8:09 am, Jude DaShiell wrote: >>>> You missed out on a huge amount of the basic training. You didn't learn >>>> about ftp or gopher either or listserv among other things. They also >>>> never showed you how to come up with good passwords either. It's no >>>> wonder the script kitty and hacker class have so much fun on the internet. >>>> Sighted people got no better training than you. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jude <jdashiel at panix dot com> "There are four boxes to be used in >>>> defense of liberty: >>>> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." >>>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023, Day Garwood wrote: >>>> >>>>> Telnet is part of basic internet training? Yikes. The only training we had >>>>> in >>>>> the UK back in my days was, this is how to browse the web, this is how to >>>>> check your emails. Oh, and don't give out your passwords. >>>>> >>>>> Had I been at a different school or in a different time I guess I might >>>>> have >>>>> been taught more internet and network-based stuff in my A-levels, but, >>>>> well, >>>>> let's just say that turned out to be a total fiasco. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers. >>>>> >>>>> On 23/01/2023 18:54, Jude DaShiell wrote: >>>>>> Not everybody had proper internet training. There used to be a course >>>>>> called roadmap to the internet which was a 10 lesson email independent >>>>>> study course a long time ago and one of the lessons in that course >>>>>> covered >>>>>> telnet. I took the course but lost the lessons when internet providers >>>>>> changed. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Jude <jdashiel at panix dot com> "There are four boxes to be used in >>>>>> defense of liberty: >>>>>> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." >>>>>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023, Day Garwood wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Travis, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You say simple, but I've never even heard of a telnet client lol. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Text based games? I'm reminded of geeky command line stuff, but I can't >>>>>>> imagine that working for games. Like, kill enemy. The enemy is dead... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Clearly there's more to it than that, they wouldn't make thousands of >>>>>>> games >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> they had no challenge. So yeah, now you've really lit my fire. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The only downside is I think the novelty would wear off pretty soon, >>>>>>> since >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> wouldn't be very realistic. But hey, who knows. If they're as big as >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> sound they might be like books where I just can't put them down even >>>>>>> though >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> haven't got all the sound effects going on. >>>>>>> Can you clarify when you say you can't break anything? As I say I got >>>>>>> tons >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> tons of errors last time, so I'm guessing I did something wrong. I can't >>>>>>> imagine a client with that many errors making it out the door. And I >>>>>>> hadn't >>>>>>> heard of anyone else getting errors at the time either. >>>>>>> Also when you're finally connected if users are waiting for you to do >>>>>>> something and you don't know what you're doing I can easily see harsh >>>>>>> words >>>>>>> flying back and forwards. >>>>>>> I can see why people might think it's just a case of put a mud (I.E. a >>>>>>> game) >>>>>>> online and people show up. After all, if I run a TopSpeed or Crazy Party >>>>>>> server, that's literally all it is. And if you don't know about muds >>>>>>> then >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> could be a common misconception. I would probably have got caught in >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> trap >>>>>>> myself if you hadn't have informed me otherwise. Also there's the fact >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> some people just don't know the difference between a host and an admin - >>>>>>> that's not me, although again, I have been there once. >>>>>>> Cheers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 23/01/2023 17:52, Travis Siegel wrote: >>>>>>>> Muds are simply games that are hosted online. There's thousands of >>>>>>>> them, >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> every genre, so your first problem is choosing one that fits the kind >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> game you want to play. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They are text based, so a simple telnet client is all you need to play >>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are mud clients that make interacting with the muds easier, but >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> are by no means essential to play. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sincce you're new though, you should probably give it a try with a mud >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> does have features for visually impaired users, such as 3k, or >>>>>>>> alteraeon, >>>>>>>> since both of those muds have features to cut down on the amount of >>>>>>>> spam >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> receive while logged into the game, and that can make a huge difference >>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>> for veteran players. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Basically though, head on over to the mud connector >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mudconnect.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C607171016d384e9f2cb408dafdaf2c23%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638101226041592845%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=MfgGaBDmqOQz6IHE1bV%2Fj6PI4CyHrsqOLAwEVhtO0yk%3D&reserved=0, >>>>>>>> look for a mud that looks interesting, and >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> at it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When you first log into a mud, you can (generally) use any name you >>>>>>>> like, >>>>>>>> since it's a game, the point is to have fun, so nobody needs (or in >>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>> cases wants) to know you real name, so just pick something that sounds >>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>> to you, and run with it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As you get more and more experience with muds, you'll gravitate to >>>>>>>> particular kinds of muds or particular mud drivers/systems. Some folks >>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>> the diku style muds (circle, rom, tartarus, envy, and so on), others >>>>>>>> prefer >>>>>>>> a more custom esperience, LPC muds (btw, 3k and lostsouls are both lpc >>>>>>>> muds), Alteraeon is a custom written driver that kind of resembles both >>>>>>>> circle and lpc, but it's agood combination that works. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you're looking for a mud that has lots of other blind players so you >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> get assistance, alteraeon might be where you want to start, but if >>>>>>>> you're >>>>>>>> interested in just trying things out, 3k may be where you want to >>>>>>>> start, >>>>>>>> because they have areas for science, fantasy, and chaos (thus the 3 >>>>>>>> kingdoms >>>>>>>> monicre), but they do have a bit of a newbie friendly zone to get >>>>>>>> started >>>>>>>> in, though it's nowhere near as guided as you might find on circle >>>>>>>> based >>>>>>>> muds, what with their newbie school that practically walks you through >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> first few levels, telling you what to type, how to type it, and when to >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> different things. I was never a fan of that myself, but I do see the >>>>>>>> appeal. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So, anyway, either take a listing from the mailing list that looks good >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> you, or check mudconnector and find something for yourself you think >>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>> work, then dive in, you can't break it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There's tons of mud clients, aand to be perfectly honest, I've never in >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>> life used anything other than a mainstream mud client. I've never even >>>>>>>> tried those put out specifically for visually impaired users, because I >>>>>>>> personally can't stand the hand holding most mud clients try to do >>>>>>>> (even >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> sighted folks), which is why I've stuck to things like muddle and >>>>>>>> tintin >>>>>>>> over the years, because those both have scripting languages, but it's >>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>> or less up to the user to do their own scripting to make it do what >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> want, and that's more my style. I never did like preconfigured clients >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> only allow me to do cer5tain things, because someone thought it was a >>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>> idea to protect me from commands I might accidentally type. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (why? You can't break anything, so why bother?) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The first mud ZI ever played on was called dark wind, and I believe >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> mud >>>>>>>> is gone now, although it still existed a few years ago. That was also >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> first mud I became a wizard on, and built areas for other players to >>>>>>>> use. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've also run my own muds from time to time, (rom, LPMud, mordor, >>>>>>>> empire, >>>>>>>> and others, but running a mud is a *lot* of work, and I just don't have >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> patience for it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I did host muds for several years in the late 90s, but I eventually got >>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>> of that too, dealing with customer requests got out of hand, even with >>>>>>>> terms >>>>>>>> clearly outlined I was still being asked to compile a mud, fix a bug, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>> on and so on. You run the mud, it's up to you to maintain the thing. >>>>>>>> Too >>>>>>>> many folks thought running a mud was a s simple as putting up a server, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> the players show up. <sigh> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyway, that's neither here nor there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The take away from this message is that there's thousands of muds out >>>>>>>> there, >>>>>>>> find one that works for you, and you'll be happy. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 1/23/2023 11:32 AM, Day Garwood wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I've seen a lot of messages here about muds. I'm getting the >>>>>>>>> impression >>>>>>>>> that, given that not many audiogames are made any more, seems like >>>>>>>>> muds >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> the way forward if I want to try anything new. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't know a lot about them, in fact I thought "mud" was a game, but >>>>>>>>> based on messages that I'm seeing I'm getting the impression they're >>>>>>>>> merely >>>>>>>>> a type of game. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The only think I really know is that you need a "mud client", >>>>>>>>> suggesting >>>>>>>>> that they're online based. That makes me think of things like QuentinC >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> RS, but even that doesn't quite sound right somehow. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Years ago, I tried to use VIPMud but got nowhere, then was told that >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> wasn't supported so I should go use this other thing (which was >>>>>>>>> apparently >>>>>>>>> better anyway). My teacher then Enthusiastically got me to press loads >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> buttons, only to discover that I got a whole screenload of errors, and >>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>> they didn't know what to do with themselves and clicked off. So bang >>>>>>>>> went >>>>>>>>> that idea. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That was the last I heard about muds for a while, up to now. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So I'd be interested to know how they work, how I might go about >>>>>>>>> trying >>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>> without embarrassing myself, which client I should try, which game I >>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>> try, etc etc. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Even better, if someone has any free time and would be willing to >>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>> sit and go through it with me step by step privately on a call or >>>>>>>>> something, that would be amazing. Especially since the one lesson I >>>>>>>>> learned >>>>>>>>> from my disaster of a session is that it's not a case of download, >>>>>>>>> launch, >>>>>>>>> play, like most audiogames are. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It'll probably turn out to be one of those things that sounds overly >>>>>>>>> complicated now, but in a year I'll be a whiz at it. Hopefully. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >
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