Bingo.

I agree with John 100%.

Aping legacy key systems (or PBXs) should really be a non-goal for BLISS.
It's a loosing battle.

"Equal" means they won't upgrade to SIP (and I'd argue that in fact, it
won't be "Equal" but "Almost-as-good"). We have to do "Better" if we want
to be successful.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> On Behalf Of Elwell, John
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 08:38
> To: Rohan Mahy; Paul Kyzivat
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [BLISS] MLA with Floor Control
> 
> Catching up on this whole thread, it seems to me that the 
> discussion revolves around two aspects: "shout-control" and 
> "line seizure".
> 
> For shout-control, I believe the proposal from Francois of 
> using separate AoRs, rather than a single AoR with multiple 
> appearances, can be made to work and can be mapped to current 
> UI practices if that is desired. Shortened forms of the AoR 
> can be used to make them more user-friendly.
> 
> For line seizure, I have to ask why is the IETF worried about 
> this? I just did an experiment on my desk SIP phone, and yes, 
> I can obtain dial tone, but all the time I have had the phone 
> I don't recall using that feature. I either select a number 
> from my address book or pre-dial the digits, and then I hit 
> "go" (the way people have been doing it on cell phones for 
> the last decade or more). When I hit "go" my phone can choose 
> an AoR that is free, and that then gives me the "appearance 
> number" that I can shout across the room. There is, of 
> course, a race condition, whereby two phones hit "go" at the 
> same time and attempt to use the same AoR, or an incoming 
> call arrives on that AoR at the same time as an outgoing 
> call. If you have some agent at the proxy policing the 
> one-call-per-AoR rule, it can reject an outgoing call request 
> when the race condition occurs and the UA can try again on a 
> different AoR.
> 
> Defining new protocol just so that I can have this dial tone 
> thing and anchor my call to an appearance before I actually 
> dial does not seem a compelling feature to me. If it is 
> really required, then what about an empty INVITE request that 
> somehow gets put into some wait state until a complete INVITE 
> request arrives? This would be rather like the horrible 
> overlap sending work-around from the days we were doing PSTN 
> interworking, but quite frankly dial tone is a PSTN thing.
> 
> John
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> > Of Rohan Mahy
> > Sent: 20 March 2008 15:08
> > To: Paul Kyzivat
> > Cc: Rohan Mahy; [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [BLISS] MLA with Floor Control
> > 
> > 
> > On Mar 19, 2008, at 6:05 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
> > 
> > > kibitzing...
> > >
> > > Francois Audet wrote:
> > >
> > >> The reason why one wanted to "seize the line" for an
> > outgoing call
> > >> back then was
> > >> because it was a physical piece of wire. It was a physical 
> > >> limitation of the system.
> > >> Being able to have multiple people use the same line for an 
> > >> outgoing call actually seems like a feature to me, not a 
> bug. Yet 
> > >> another reason why ditching the old key system is good.
> > >
> > > There is a tradeoff...
> > >
> > > If multiple extensions can place outgoing calls from the
> > same line,
> > > then the line doesn't have "binary" status, so it can't 
> be indicated 
> > > as active or not with a light. And you can't "conference in" by 
> > > picking up on the same line.
> > >
> > > While I am not into it myself, I can see how someone can build a 
> > > "business process" around the specific way in which lines are 
> > > managed by the phones, and then be very upset if they 
> can't get that 
> > > same user experience.
> > 
> > ...and that upset "someone" may not be the actual end user.
> > 
> > > Now you can come up with some very nice UIs that provide 
> better user 
> > > experience, if you have a suitable display instead of 
> just a bunch 
> > > of lights. (E.g. an entry for the "number" (AOR that 
> people call), 
> > > and a variable length drop down list of active calls, showing the 
> > > callerid of the caller, how long it has been active, and which 
> > > extensions are currently connected to it.) But that is 
> *different*, 
> > > and requires a device with richer UI.
> > 
> > my personal favorite UI for handling calls in the environment I 
> > described in my mail to Francois is that when I receive an incoming 
> > call for a specific person, I can single-step transfer the 
> call to the 
> > personal parking lot of the person who should take the call.
> > 
> > thanks,
> > -rohan
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > BLISS mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bliss
> > 
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