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Today's topics: * 6 new messages in 3 topics - digest - 2 messages, 2 authors http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/bfdfb8778d1e8ec3 * Does Article 30 violate Universal Declaration of Human Rights? - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/62a8855e1681e16e * India's window of opportunity - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/4d6f63b6da73d2dd ============================================================================== TOPIC: 6 new messages in 3 topics - digest http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/bfdfb8778d1e8ec3 ============================================================================== == 1 of 2 == Date: Mon, Jan 23 2006 12:07 pm From: "jolly" Harsha, What worse can India be than is is now. You have the likes of lalu prasad, Mulayam singh yadav, Mayawati, Ram Vilas Paswan like criminals ruling the country and whom congress supports so vehemently. look at the way Dewe gouda is being offered sops - VIce president of India, cabiner berth etc as if its her personal property just to have power in Karnataka. Regards..........Jolly > -------Original Message------- > From: BM_discussion group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: 6 new messages in 3 topics - digest > Sent: 23 Jan '06 11:59 > > > BM_discussion > http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion > [email protected] > > Today's topics: > > * are u a hindu or a secularist - 3 messages, 3 authors > > http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/ccc9324561842881 > * The auctioning of India - 1 messages, 1 author > > http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/8fab64179b93adc9 > * ever imagined? - 2 messages, 2 authors > > http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/5cfcb52826e572f2 > > > ============================================================================== > TOPIC: are u a hindu or a secularist > > http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/ccc9324561842881 > > ============================================================================== > > == 1 of 3 == > Date: Sun, Jan 22 2006 12:47 pm > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Dear Brother Amit, > > The best way to stop imbalance is by promoting balance. Lets us > transform the society into one that believes in love and harmony, I > know, its not easy, but that is the only way to achieve a happy > nation. > > If you see, there is some mistrust between many religions in India, > let us promote common values in all religions as one common ground > that can be shared and practised by all of us. > > to answer your question, are u a hindu or a secularist ? I would > answer 'neither' . > I sometimes felt that vote-bank politics was being practised, dividing > the people on the basis of religion, caste etc.. > > The solution would be promote Oneness - Humanity Without Barriers. > I am not advocating dormant pacificism - but a gradual progression > towards 'Humanity Without Barriers' > > Kiran > > > > > == 2 of 3 == > Date: Sun, Jan 22 2006 8:22 pm > From: "panda" > > I am a Hndu secularistic atheist. Why? By default or by birth I am a > Hindu Brahmin. Most of the relatives, friends and neighbours are > Hindus. The festivals and other gatherings(socio-cultural events) are > basically having religious tones(in good sense). So all these has given > me an identity. Why I am secular? ( not the pseudo-one) because I do > not think religion is not that much required as far as governance is > concerned. Religion is required for the common mass for spirituality > and setting the parameters of principles. Secularism actually means to > denounce the institutions. It was a very old theory existing in India. > Like CHARWAKS. And a Hindu may be truely secular. Our school of thought > is very rich and open minded and ready to experiment. Now why atheist? > It is also there in our philosophy. A 'bhakta' gets 'mukti' in 12 lives > but a 'shatru' of Bhagawan gets it in 3 lives. Why? Because it's again > really difficult to be an atheist and as man is very weak. I am > attached to Ramakrishna mission and have faith on Shree Ramakrishna and > Vivekananda. They were mortals with flesh and blood. Yes as they > believed in God, I have to think very cautiously and may not throw the > vanishing act. > We are here to work and perform our 'Karma' and 'Dharma which does not > mean religion but 'duty'. It is much more above religion. We have to be > proud with our culture and heritage. We have to regularly treat and > filter our water (life) regularly as dirt always sets in. And 'Vidya > dadati vinayam'. True knowledge makes one sober. The tree which bore > many fruits, vows itself down (nata) > regards > panda > > > > > == 3 of 3 == > Date: Mon, Jan 23 2006 4:43 am > From: "harsha" > > amit, > have you ever thought despite being given so many provisions, > why muslims in india still the most economically backward > section? and also they constitute most illiterates, did you > know that less than 5% of muslim women are litereates. > > i happen to see MLA/MP seats/jobs being reserved for > SC/ST/OBC but not for muslims. they certainly need to be > given enough economical pull to bring into mainstream like > SC/STs. I really don't wonder if tomorrow government > comes with muslim reservation in education and jobs, > since they are as bad as any other backward section > in India, though people deny reservations based on > caste lines. > > Instead of mud slinging, we should be better souls if we > can call ourselves nationalistic and work together for the > betterment of nation. > > as far as your fifth point considered, it takes centuries > for muslims population to overtake hindu population with > muslims still being about 18% of total indian population. > > > > > > > ============================================================================== > TOPIC: The auctioning of India > > http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/8fab64179b93adc9 > > ============================================================================== > > == 1 of 1 == > Date: Mon, Jan 23 2006 5:44 am > From: "harsha" > > saswant, Just like one inherit his father's business, politicians like > their children to inherit their legacy whether they fit or not for the > job. There could be better people who can manage inherited business > than you could, but as at one time you are telling, where is the > chance? This is not limited to congress alone, probably to any > politician irrespective of party line. > > Believe it or not, being politician is the most competent and toughest > job in India. One has to rise to stand such competition. If some > inherit it and is incomepetent, he will feather out eventually just > like if he is an incompetent businessman. No charisma works. > > > > > > > ============================================================================== > TOPIC: ever imagined? > > http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/5cfcb52826e572f2 > > ============================================================================== > > == 1 of 2 == > Date: Mon, Jan 23 2006 5:16 pm > From: Harsha > > What if axis powers had won world war 2? any guess. > > India certainly would be a different state with Subhash Chandra Bose > donning the stage as first prime minister. > > tribute to a great leader on his birth anniversary, > http://library.flawlesslogic.com/bose_1.htm > > > > == 2 of 2 == > Date: Mon, Jan 23 2006 3:17 pm > From: Vinay Khaitan > > Dear Harsha, > > if axis power would have won, the world order would have been much > worse, much much worse. Indian would have been in very bad state than > currenlty it is. > On 23/01/06, Harsha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > What if axis powers had won world war 2? any guess. > > > > India certainly would be a different state with Subhash Chandra Bose > > donning the stage as first prime minister. > > > > tribute to a great leader on his birth anniversary, > > http://library.flawlesslogic.com/bose_1.htm > > > > > > > ============================================================================== > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "BM_discussion" > group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] or visit > http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To change the way you get mail from this group, visit: > http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/subscribe > > To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ============================================================================== > Google Groups: http://groups.google.com > == 2 of 2 == Date: Mon, Jan 23 2006 2:25 pm From: "harsha" Jolly/Khaitan, I don't want to speculate on history, I happen to read a book titled 'The Alternate History' by Peter Tsouras who had not drawn simple conclusion like you both did that India could be worser than what it is now. I certainly did not back any current day politician be it Lalu/Mulayam, both are foreign to me. I supported reservation system (Iol, I belong to Other Castes: OC) and openly told my views what if reservations are lifted. Where in the world you see secularists rubbing shoulders with communals. All politicians shamelessly switch sides overnight. Can we ever see a democrat switching to republicans in USA? It happens only in India. Hardcore hindu Sanjay Nirupam joins hand with congress, and a true secularist like Najma Heftuallh ditches congress. needless to say, value less politics. ============================================================================== TOPIC: Does Article 30 violate Universal Declaration of Human Rights? http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/62a8855e1681e16e ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Mon, Jan 23 2006 3:05 pm From: viji Dear Members I will believe the below subject is pertinent for our discussion - Vij Does Article 30 violate Universal Declaration of Human Rights? By Moorthy Muthuswamy http://www.indiacause.com/columns/OL_051223.htm India inherited its democratic system from the departing British in 1947 who ruled over it for several hundred years. It is far from clear that India had a mature and able class of indigenous people who could have formulated a robust and Consistent Constitution. It now appears that Article 30 of the Indian Constitution not only violates the secular character of India, but also promotes religious discrimination of majority and may be in violation of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights-Adopted and proclaimed by the United Nations General Assembly resolution 217 A (III) of December 10, 1948. Article 30 of the Indian Constitution has certain provisions whereby minorities are exempted (are allowed to discriminate on the basis of religion, unlike majority) from certain requirements in running their own institutions. By and large, Hindus are not considered in minority (even in areas where they are in minority such as Jammu and Kashmir) but Christians and Muslims definitely are. For instance, according to Article 30, minority community may reserve up to 50 per cent of the seats for the members of its own community in an educational institution established and administered by it even if the institution is getting aid from the State. Christian and Muslim controlled educational institutions in India, encouraged by Article 30 of the Indian Constitution, are discriminating in favour of their religious compatriots in employment and in student admissions (Religious apartheid in India and American policy response). But the Christians and the Muslims are not disadvantaged community in India. Indian Christian community has among the highest literacy rate (53 per cent Hindu literacy rate vs. 81 per cent Christian literacy rate; literacy also implies wealth) and Indian Muslims already have a 25 per cent permanent reservation of land, wealth and opportunities called Pakistan/Bangladesh-almost emptied of Hindus due to massive ethnic cleansing and religious discrimination (and driven away to India). Christian community was favoured by British colonizers until sixty years ago. Therefore, unlike America where blacks, discriminated for centuries, who are now given employment preferences in the form of affirmative action, there is little justification for minority reservations in India. Indeed, Islamic Partitioning of India in 1947 has already made Hindus the disadvantaged community in India and these minority reservations for proselytizing religions such as Christianity or Islam create conditions of majority Hindu religious genocide - by making the majority poor by unfairly excluding them from employment and education. This situation has already been created in Kerala where minorities have taken advantage of Article 30 to exclude majority Hindus from education and employment and driven them to poverty. This was pointed by Prof. Issac. The jihadi movement in Kashmir is strengthened by reservations in favour of Muslims. According to Article 23 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: "Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment". The already disadvantaged majority Hindus are being unfairly denied the right to work in religious minority-controlled institutions in India because of their religious affiliation, should also be considered in violation of the above Declaration. Article 26 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights says: "Everyone has the right to education.technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be made equally accessible to all on the basis of merit." Religious minority controlled institutions in India give preferential admission to students of their faith that again is sanctioned by Article 30 of the Indian Constitution. This again unfairly denies already disadvantaged majority Hindu students access to education on the basis of merit. The recent assertion by the HRD minister, Arjun Singh defining Article 30 of the Indian Constitution as "protecting minorities" is inappropriate. An appropriate interpretation of Article 30 is one of giving unfair preferences to Indian minorities but also of promoting majority apartheid and discrimination. Such an Indian state can arguably seen as an uncivilized one (through its violation of Universal Declaration of Human Rights), despite calling itself as a "secular democracy". A detailed analysis shows that through constitutional based religious discrimination of majority, the Indian state may be embarking on a collective suicide of itself and its majority population - unless Article 30 is amended to make it free of religious discrimination. (The writer is an US-based nuclear physicist. He can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED]) --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and well bind it! ============================================================================== TOPIC: India's window of opportunity http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/4d6f63b6da73d2dd ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Tues, Jan 24 2006 11:33 am From: Harsha 20 years is certainly pretty small period in terms of history, I being in Singapore, Lee Kuan Yew, the man who turned mosquito swamp to modern economy recently on his visit to India told tryst with destiny for India has come once again. I'm looking around for his speech manuscript. In the mean time, a good read that says we spend more time arguing than acting. *The next 20 years are crucial. India can choose to act now and get rich, or its people can continue to argue, stay poor -- and become old. Indian policy makers can't continue to chew cud on state-asset sales, urban renewal, capital account convertibility and labor-market flexibility. ** * read on, http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000039&sid=aEISLF.zCjBo&refer=columnist_mukherjee ============================================================================== You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BM_discussion" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] or visit http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change the way you get mail from this group, visit: http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/subscribe To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ============================================================================== Google Groups: http://groups.google.com
