The BMW UUC Digest Volume 3 : Issue 5 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: Windshields OEM or PPG? Re: Experience - Aftermarket Body Panels? Re: Experience - Aftermarket Body Panels? Re: Experience - Aftermarket Body Panels? 235/45/17 snow tires?
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 10:39:04 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Windshields OEM or PPG? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hey Brian: This subject has been all over the place previously on various boards..and I personally have struggled with it when replacing my original E28 M5 windshield several years ago. After all the research was done on my part, I opted to go with OEM style glass "Sekurit" which was the "original" manufacturer, however I "did not" get it through a dealer, so it came "sans" the Roundel "logo"....my inspection sticker covers it up anyway, so what the heck! :-) It was "much less expensive" without the BMW logo...and my cheif concern was "quality". When ordering through a dealer, even with a BMW CCA discount if you can get one, the glass "may" have flaws and it will be a pain re-ordering another windshield through a dealer..maybe not...but I actually went through "3" windshields with my independent installer until we found one that didn't have flaws. A lways look though the glass and make sure there are no obvious "waves" in the glass or other imperfections. You are going to have to look through the glass for a long time once in stalled! This is my only complaint with the Imported glass...and yes, purportedly it "is" softer. PPG is another option...and many guys have been pleased with PPG. It is not as soft and the quality is excellent as far as what I was able to find out. I don't believe fitment is a problem with either. Just inspect the glass "closely" whatever you decide to go with before attempting to install it. I simply chose to stay with Sekurit, but there are actually 3 different manufacturers on the glass pieces in my '88 M5..of course it was hand assembled, and I suppose they merely used what glass was available back in July '87! This may be the case on all Bimmers. If you're totally "anal" then go with the "Roundel" logo and get the glass from a dealer...but expect to pay "premium" money for it! Trust me, if I can live with a "non-logo" windshield anyone can! :-) Good luck & I hope this info helps, John Weese BMW CCA #76646 Landisville, PA '88 M5 4 2002's '96 Orvis Jeep ('02 Hauler) In a message dated 12/18/2005 8:18:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hey all, I did a look through the archives, but I thought I'd bring the topic up again to see if thoughts have changed (relatively). I need to replace the windshield in my E36, and although I recall some threads in the not so distant past about windshield brands for replacement, I am unsure what the consensus was (or if there was one) regarding preferred replacement brand. I DO know Levinson likes his OEM glass for all the BMW logos and knicknacks, and a guaranteed fit, but I don't know really know what most others think. :) I do recall hearing that OEM glass is a bit softer/more prone to chips and pits(?) What do you all think? I was thinking also about structural considerations, which I guess are moot if the oem glass is softer and the PPG is harder. Fitment-wise, is the PPG as good (or better) than OEM? Opinions welcome, as well as names of any good windshield installation places in the Los Angeles area that anyone has had very good experience with. ;) Thanks, Brian 95 M3 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 12:18:32 -0500 From: neil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: UUC Digest <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Experience - Aftermarket Body Panels? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >When our '93 525iT was hit a 2 years ago, I would have paid the >difference between aftermarket and OEM had the insurance not done so. > OE = Original Equipment = what came on the vehicle and/or is sold by the auto mfg. as such as factory replacement parts (includes parts not actually made by the auto mfg.). OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer = parts made by the companies who make/made the OE parts for the auto mfg., but are not OE parts. Sometimes, as with Bosch, Lemforder, etc., the OEM parts are literally the same part as OE in a different package. Sometimes they are not. Most, if not all auto mfg. make their own sheet metal body parts, so you will not often find OEM body parts, only branded OE or aftermarket. I'm sure that there are exceptions to this, but I'm equally sure that BMW is not one of them. Most insurance companies will only pay for new OEM if it is near to used or aftermarket, not in up front cost, but rather in eventual cost (i.e., whether they're likely have to replace it on their dime years down the road). In the case of a claim, you are owed the cost to replace the *used* part that was damaged. Comparable quality used OE body parts are preferred in most cases, though are not as easy to find in good enough condition, especially for older cars, hence the use of aftermarket. If aftermarket parts were as bad as some believe, most insurers (at least those who have a decent warranty) wouldn't use them for repairs because they'd be replacing them later at a cost greater than new OE up front. Before some panties get bunched into wads, don't get the impression that I'm saying that aftermarket parts are all good - far from it. Some are good, but a lot are not. As they are items that are not sold retail, most consumers wouldn't know the difference between brands. This naturally leads to generalizations. It is also why CAPA was created, and it does work to some extent, but it is as much a vendor support group as it is consumer protection organization. >Just a rambling thought, but if aftermarket pieces are of a lesser >quality material, what effect may that have in reducing safety in an >accident? > That's a valid thought. While possible, it is not likely. Non-OEM aftermarket parts are supposed to pass safety rules and regs, just as OEM aftermarket parts, though I imagine that there are some which don't. Some aftermarket parts are better than the OEM part, though generally not so with body panels. The biggest complaint from body shops is that they require so much fitment work and are often flimsy. Even the crummiest body part can be made to not rust if the shop were to apply rust preventative coating (which they should not have to do with bolt-on parts). Most body parts used on street rods or antiques are aftermarket. Having said that, I must also admit that although I work in auto insurance, I only ever put OEM or reman OE parts on my own cars, even my '83 Rabbit GTI (I searched for weeks to find ATE rotors for it), about half the time those parts are used, except in the case of upgrades (i.e., Supersprint exhaust). Neil '91 318is '86 M535i '83 Rabbit GTI ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 13:37:40 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "neil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "UUC Digest" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Experience - Aftermarket Body Panels? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Seems to me that aftermarket parts don't have to pass any standard. For safety items, the whole car is tested. There is no fender crash test. Fenders do add some crush protection, but not much. On most cars, they also contribute to body stiffness. Much corrosion protection is placed onto the body after it is welded together, so a fender will need treatment even if it is factory supplied. Gary Derian >> > That's a valid thought. While possible, it is not likely. Non-OEM > aftermarket parts are supposed to pass safety rules and regs, just as OEM > aftermarket parts, though I imagine that there are some which don't. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 15:44:22 -0500 From: neil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: UUC Digest <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Experience - Aftermarket Body Panels? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I wasn't talking anything about any sort of protection from crashes and such, only fitment and rust protection; "...supposed to pass safety rules and regs" should have read "...supposed to pass the same rules and regs". Typo, sorry. I was going to mention that it was not a safety issue, but had edited that part out. Of course corrosion protection is applied after welding, but fenders, doors, etc. are bolted on, not welded. I am also aware that fenders are not major structural parts, and never meant to imply otherwise, though, if you want to go there, a thin, flimsy fender would not contribute the same sort of stiffness or crush protection that a not thin, flimsy fender would (except on my Rabbit - even the original fenders are thin and flimsy). My point was simply that whatever regs that OEM replacement parts would have to meet, a/m parts would also have to meet, yet some a/m parts continue to have fitment and corrosion issues. I don't know all the regs for replacement parts, a/m or OEM. I know that there are some, but I've forgotten a lot of the legal stuff (basically whatever laws which affected how claim repairs are done) since I no longer handle auto claims, but I recall some regulation regarding corrosion resistance. I also recall some training in which it was mentioned that, in addition to inferior or absent corrosion protection, some a/m body parts are also made from a steels that are more prone to rust than others. I don't know whether this is a fact or merely supposition on the part of those who had stated it, and didn't care enough to explore further. Parts that come with a "permanent" rust inhibitor (undercoating, paint, whatever) do not require additional protection, though it usually is not a bad idea. Only when this coating is removed or absent for whatever reason does the body shop have to apply it, and in such cases only in the affected areas. This is also noted in collision estimating guides. On the other hand, I understand what you are saying - if the car or part being repaired had additional corrosion inhibitor applied at any time during or after assembly, then this would have to be reapplied by the shop after repair. Most cars do not have additional coatings on bolt-on parts such as fenders and doors, though some do. Those that do either have it on the replacement part or give instructions to the repairer to re-apply it at repair. Whatever was present prior to repair should be present after repair in any case. Neil Gary Derian wrote: > Seems to me that aftermarket parts don't have to pass any standard. > For safety items, the whole car is tested. There is no fender crash > test. Fenders do add some crush protection, but not much. On most > cars, they also contribute to body stiffness. > > Much corrosion protection is placed onto the body after it is welded > together, so a fender will need treatment even if it is factory supplied. > > Gary Derian > > >>> >> That's a valid thought. While possible, it is not likely. Non-OEM >> aftermarket parts are supposed to pass safety rules and regs, just as >> OEM aftermarket parts, though I imagine that there are some which don't. > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:19:21 -0800 (PST) From: P Kroon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: UUC Digest <[email protected]> Subject: 235/45/17 snow tires? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello, Does anyone know if Michelin 235/45/17 snow tires will fit on an e36 M3? The tires currently on the car are 235/40/17, so these are *slightly* taller tires (3.70" sidewall for the stock tires and 4.16" for these snow tires). I have these from my mustang, and if they will fit, I'd rather not spend the money for another set. Plus, the added height (while minimal I realize) can't hurt either. Thanks, Paul __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(5 messages) **********
