No worries Cindy. We've all learned a great deal from each other (at least I have!) and this is one of the most cordial groups I belong to. b
On Mar 13, 2011, at 10:15 AM, Cindy Goddard wrote: > Hi Ben > > I appreciate your reply. Wasn't long at all, but very informative! I've > learned from reading coffeegeek posts about changing one variable at a time. > I plan on keeping a log so I can keep other variables consistent while > changing one thing while searching for the sweet spot. I have a feeling my > log book is going to get thick!! I may have to get a thermometer to see the > temp coming out of the grouphead. Thanks for the coffeegeek link. I have > learned so much over there as well as HB forums. Both great sources of > information. > > Again, thanks for sharing your experience. I'm hoping after a while at this > I can help someone else one day. > > Cindy > > > > On Mar 13, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Benjamin McCafferty wrote: > >> Hi there Cindy, >> >> Yes, I'm aware of the offset, but not totally sure how it all relates >> together. I agree that it *should* mean that when I'm showing 205 on the >> PID, the boiler would be at 223. But, for giggles, I just measured the >> boiler two ways--using an infrared instant thermometer at the top of my >> boiler, and using a normal milk thermometer inserted down the inside of the >> insulation on the brew boiler. >> >> The infrared reads right around 185, and the probe reads 180. This was >> concerning to me, i.e. it didn't seem the PID is doing a very good job of >> keeping the brew boiler even remotely close to where I had it set. It >> seemed unlikely that I was losing 45 degrees from the inside of the boiler >> to the outside, but perhaps. >> >> Next, I pulled the PF and turned on the pump, allowing the water to drop >> into the PF and run into the drip tray. The water was falling maybe three >> inches, but not losing a ton of heat. I kept the infrared running, and it >> started at 185, then climbed steadily over the next 10-20 seconds and >> settled at about 215-220. This gives me confidence that the temp in the >> brew boiler is in fact quite a bit higher than the outside measurements >> indicated, but also points to the fact that the temperature climbs as water >> comes through the group during a shot. This was discussed in this article, >> and is really of interest to me (not that we can do much about it with our >> machines, except to find the "sweet spot" for time/temp and center cut the >> shot with that parameter): >> >> http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/markprince/08-16-2010 >> >> As Ira and I both said previously, you will find that you tend to work in >> similar ways with your machine from day to day, and so as you make changes, >> you will automatically see the results, good or bad, with a good amount of >> consistency. As an example, I always run a second or two of water through >> my PF before I pull it out, dry it, and load it. I then place it in the >> group, and then go get my milk pitcher from the freezer, fill it, and begin >> to steam. I then start the shot once I've buried the wand in the milk. My >> routine rarely varies from this, so however much time I spend on all the >> tasks is roughly the same for each shot, and so the amount that the PF >> cools, or the amount the grind preheats, etc. is always about the same day >> to day. When I raise or lower the temperature on the machine, my routine is >> still the same and so the temp change will have its desired effect. I find >> myself getting in trouble when I try to start manipulating a single variable >> in a vacuum and don't take the rest of the routine into account, if that >> makes sense. In this case, if I start just pulling shots over and over, I >> might find a sweet spot for that particular activity, i.e. pulling repeated >> shots. Useful info, but not what I do every day. Instead, patience will be >> your friend in the long run, i.e. try it one way for a few days, then change >> one thing and try that for a few days. As Ira so eloquently stated, let >> your tongue be your guide, and you'll quickly find the settings that work >> well for you. >> >> Sorry for the long diatribe--just some experience coming out and I do like >> to talk about good coffee!!! >> >> Welcome to the group; you'll really enjoy the machine. It is very capable >> and robust, and makes wonderful coffee. >> >> best, >> Ben >> >> On Mar 13, 2011, at 8:03 AM, Cindy Goddard wrote: >> >>> Hi Benjamin >>> >>> Yes it is the boiler temperature, but luckily WLL uses the offset of >>> 18F to show approx grouphead temp (according to WLL email). So if my >>> PID says 200F, I'm assuming that the boiler temp is really 218F. >>> >>> You are right that when it all comes down to it, it's the taste that >>> matters. Can't wait to do my first shot with this little beast! >>> >>> Cindy >>> >>> On Mar 13, 12:04 am, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Hi Cindy, >>>> Having just installed a PID in my B2 today, I can say with confidence that >>>> the PID is reading temp at the boiler. It has a thermowell in the top of >>>> the boiler and a short wire to the PID unit. >>>> >>>> You can read about many experiments with temp probes inside the PF, etc. >>>> on homebarista and I think some here too. The idea with our machines is >>>> that the group will be close to the temp of the boiler (thermosiphon), but >>>> you'll still get some cooling. You'll find that it's relative >>>> though--you'll raise or lower the boiler temp until you find one that you >>>> like, so the actual temp at the PF won't matter--you'll know what works >>>> for your taste and coffee. Does that make sense? It is an interesting >>>> subject though. >>>> >>>> best, >>>> bmc >>>> >>>> On Mar 12, 2011, at 7:48 PM, Cindy Goddard wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello everyone! >>>> >>>>> Just placed an order from WLL on Friday as well as a Baratza Vario >>>>> grinder. I'm very excited and nervous since this is my first espresso >>>>> set-up. >>>> >>>>> I have some fresh beans from Red Bird and have ordered a tamper, also >>>>> a bottomless portafilter so I can learn about my extractions plus some >>>>> other goodies. So I think I'm ready for the big day! >>>> >>>>> Is the PID set to show the temperature at the group? I have also read >>>>> that some other machines that have a PID is actually the boiler >>>>> temperature being shown and that they have to learn what the true >>>>> temperature is at the grouphead since it will cool during extraction. >>>>> I want to make sure that the Brewtus PID is showing the grouphead temp >>>>> and not the boiler. I'm a little confused on this issue. >>>> >>>>> Not sure what kind of user manual will be in the machine, but if there >>>>> is anything I should know that the manual may not mention, I would >>>>> love to hear it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated from all of >>>>> you. >>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Cindy :) >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Brewtus" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit this group >>>>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/brewtus?hl=en. >> > > Cindy Goddard > [email protected] > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. 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