Kitt and Ben, I thank you both. Will post update later in the week. :) Cindy
On Mar 13, 1:59 pm, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> wrote: > No worries Cindy. We've all learned a great deal from each other (at least I > have!) and this is one of the most cordial groups I belong to. > b > > On Mar 13, 2011, at 10:15 AM, Cindy Goddard wrote: > > > Hi Ben > > > I appreciate your reply. Wasn't long at all, but very informative! I've > > learned from reading coffeegeek posts about changing one variable at a > > time. I plan on keeping a log so I can keep other variables consistent > > while changing one thing while searching for the sweet spot. I have a > > feeling my log book is going to get thick!! I may have to get a > > thermometer to see the temp coming out of the grouphead. Thanks for the > > coffeegeek link. I have learned so much over there as well as HB forums. > > Both great sources of information. > > > Again, thanks for sharing your experience. I'm hoping after a while at > > this I can help someone else one day. > > > Cindy > > > On Mar 13, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Benjamin McCafferty wrote: > > >> Hi there Cindy, > > >> Yes, I'm aware of the offset, but not totally sure how it all relates > >> together. I agree that it *should* mean that when I'm showing 205 on the > >> PID, the boiler would be at 223. But, for giggles, I just measured the > >> boiler two ways--using an infrared instant thermometer at the top of my > >> boiler, and using a normal milk thermometer inserted down the inside of > >> the insulation on the brew boiler. > > >> The infrared reads right around 185, and the probe reads 180. This was > >> concerning to me, i.e. it didn't seem the PID is doing a very good job of > >> keeping the brew boiler even remotely close to where I had it set. It > >> seemed unlikely that I was losing 45 degrees from the inside of the > >> boiler to the outside, but perhaps. > > >> Next, I pulled the PF and turned on the pump, allowing the water to drop > >> into the PF and run into the drip tray. The water was falling maybe three > >> inches, but not losing a ton of heat. I kept the infrared running, and it > >> started at 185, then climbed steadily over the next 10-20 seconds and > >> settled at about 215-220. This gives me confidence that the temp in the > >> brew boiler is in fact quite a bit higher than the outside measurements > >> indicated, but also points to the fact that the temperature climbs as > >> water comes through the group during a shot. This was discussed in this > >> article, and is really of interest to me (not that we can do much about it > >> with our machines, except to find the "sweet spot" for time/temp and > >> center cut the shot with that parameter): > > >>http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/markprince/08-16-2010 > > >> As Ira and I both said previously, you will find that you tend to work in > >> similar ways with your machine from day to day, and so as you make > >> changes, you will automatically see the results, good or bad, with a good > >> amount of consistency. As an example, I always run a second or two of > >> water through my PF before I pull it out, dry it, and load it. I then > >> place it in the group, and then go get my milk pitcher from the freezer, > >> fill it, and begin to steam. I then start the shot once I've buried the > >> wand in the milk. My routine rarely varies from this, so however much > >> time I spend on all the tasks is roughly the same for each shot, and so > >> the amount that the PF cools, or the amount the grind preheats, etc. is > >> always about the same day to day. When I raise or lower the temperature > >> on the machine, my routine is still the same and so the temp change will > >> have its desired effect. I find myself getting in trouble when I try to > >> start manipulating a single variable in a vacuum and don't take the rest > >> of the routine into account, if that makes sense. In this case, if I > >> start just pulling shots over and over, I might find a sweet spot for that > >> particular activity, i.e. pulling repeated shots. Useful info, but not > >> what I do every day. Instead, patience will be your friend in the long > >> run, i.e. try it one way for a few days, then change one thing and try > >> that for a few days. As Ira so eloquently stated, let your tongue be your > >> guide, and you'll quickly find the settings that work well for you. > > >> Sorry for the long diatribe--just some experience coming out and I do like > >> to talk about good coffee!!! > > >> Welcome to the group; you'll really enjoy the machine. It is very capable > >> and robust, and makes wonderful coffee. > > >> best, > >> Ben > > >> On Mar 13, 2011, at 8:03 AM, Cindy Goddard wrote: > > >>> Hi Benjamin > > >>> Yes it is the boiler temperature, but luckily WLL uses the offset of > >>> 18F to show approx grouphead temp (according to WLL email). So if my > >>> PID says 200F, I'm assuming that the boiler temp is really 218F. > > >>> You are right that when it all comes down to it, it's the taste that > >>> matters. Can't wait to do my first shot with this little beast! > > >>> Cindy > > >>> On Mar 13, 12:04 am, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> Hi Cindy, > >>>> Having just installed a PID in my B2 today, I can say with confidence > >>>> that the PID is reading temp at the boiler. It has a thermowell in the > >>>> top of the boiler and a short wire to the PID unit. > > >>>> You can read about many experiments with temp probes inside the PF, etc. > >>>> on homebarista and I think some here too. The idea with our machines is > >>>> that the group will be close to the temp of the boiler (thermosiphon), > >>>> but you'll still get some cooling. You'll find that it's relative > >>>> though--you'll raise or lower the boiler temp until you find one that > >>>> you like, so the actual temp at the PF won't matter--you'll know what > >>>> works for your taste and coffee. Does that make sense? It is an > >>>> interesting subject though. > > >>>> best, > >>>> bmc > > >>>> On Mar 12, 2011, at 7:48 PM, Cindy Goddard wrote: > > >>>>> Hello everyone! > > >>>>> Just placed an order from WLL on Friday as well as a Baratza Vario > >>>>> grinder. I'm very excited and nervous since this is my first espresso > >>>>> set-up. > > >>>>> I have some fresh beans from Red Bird and have ordered a tamper, also > >>>>> a bottomless portafilter so I can learn about my extractions plus some > >>>>> other goodies. So I think I'm ready for the big day! > > >>>>> Is the PID set to show the temperature at the group? I have also read > >>>>> that some other machines that have a PID is actually the boiler > >>>>> temperature being shown and that they have to learn what the true > >>>>> temperature is at the grouphead since it will cool during extraction. > >>>>> I want to make sure that the Brewtus PID is showing the grouphead temp > >>>>> and not the boiler. I'm a little confused on this issue. > > >>>>> Not sure what kind of user manual will be in the machine, but if there > >>>>> is anything I should know that the manual may not mention, I would > >>>>> love to hear it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated from all of > >>>>> you. > > >>>>> Thanks > >>>>> Cindy :) > > >>>>> -- > >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. > >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >>>>> [email protected]. > >>>>> For more options, visit this group > >>>>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/brewtus?hl=en. > > > Cindy Goddard > > [email protected] -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. 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