hello kitt,
allright. here we go,
this feels like "Major Plum in the Library with an axe."
:)
You like the coffee made by your Gaggia.
check
You like the coffee made by your Pavoni.
not always so good.
You don't like the taste of your coffee when it is produced by your
B4.
sometimes it's ok, but it could be better. the gaggia does it better.
You know that the B4 coffee is brewed neither too hot (it would have
a bitter note) nor too low (it would be sour).
check.
You define it as too "harsh" which sounds unpleasant, (but perhaps
not perfectly clear to others.)
i will try to elaborate, although i find it hard to define.
it is for a large part mouthfeel, i would describe this as biting, maybe
astringent. it largely distorts the fine flavors and aromas. there is
little sweetness, to a fault. i've been struggling whether to attribute
these nasty molecules to 'bitter' or 'sour,' and i lean towards bitter,
but i'm not even sure if they have much of a flavor. it's chemistry, i
suppose.
this might give you a clue too: when i take a sip, there might be some
sharpness on top, but the nastiness really kicks in after a moment. it
builds up, becomes overpowering. and this will last as long as the after
taste lasts.
i hope this makes things more clear. if not, please ask.
You roast your own beans.
check.
You have been using your B4 for a year. (cleaning status undefined)
no, for a couple of months. i have posted on the cleaning status. in
short, i just did some cleaning, it helps but didn't solve the issue.
You have changed the factory settings many times over the past year.
yes, over the past months. back and forth. then back to basics again,
start all over again.
Your settings are now 8.5C offset and 9 bar presure and you do not
change these.
i do change values whenever i want to try to improve things. preferable
one parameter at a time.
about the offset, i have switched to fahrenheit, it is 17 fahrenheit
now, as yourself and todd recommended me.
i just now switched to fahrenheit because it seems to me that you can
set the temperature more precise this way. it's either a step of 1
degree celsius or 1 degree fahreheit. 1 degree celsius is almost twice
as much (actually around 1.8.) i've found sometimes that i would like to
go in-between say 93 and 94, so i like the smaller increments that
fahrenheit should give me.
but let's not get too distracted from the matter,
You only and always use precisely 14 grams* of ground beans (as
weighed on a gram scale.)
well, no not *exactly*, but i do keep the dose the exact same with the
same batch of coffee. here i try to be as consistent as possible.
i did get the best results so far usually between 14 and 14.5 grams with
my smaller basket.
You have seen frequent signs of channeling.
oh, yes. especially in the beginning. i have manager to reduce it a lot,
but not to eliminate it. this is one thing that can vary slightly per shot.
You use a non-standard "smaller" filter basket.
correct. i like to work with 14 grams, that's the right strength for me.
this smaller basket is better suited for 14 grams, in my opinion. do you
agree that the standard basket requires a bit more coffee than that?
switching back to the standard basket might be better for
troubleshooting. we all know this basket. only i know the smaller one.
You have a way of measuring the presure on your Gaggia, so you know
it is higher than the pressure reported by your gauge on your
Brewtus.
i do not know this for sure. but the gaggia is reported to be set at
around 12 bar pressure from the factory. it's secondhand, so
hypothetically someone could have changed this. judging from the amount
of scale, i would not think it was owned by someone who knew how to take
care of this. but you never know.
but then there's another reason to believe this. while i measured (not
with a faultless method) a lower water temperature on the gaggia, the
extraction rate was higher with the same basket/dose/grind/beans/etc. i
had to grind one increment finer on my mazzer mini for the gaggia to get
the same flowrate.
but i don't necessarily want to simulate the gaggia. i just want the
same or better results from the brewtus, by any means. that was just my
first impulse after i had admitted to myself that the gaggia did it's
job much better. it gives me a well-balanced cup, very velvety smooth on
the tongue, there is a sweetness (but by no means blandness) that i am
missing from the brewtus. none of that sharpness, no harshness. it isn't
the most clearly defined cup i've ever tasted, but still very decent in
that aspect. i feel the brewtus should beat the gaggia on that point, at
least equal it on the other points, plus giving more control and
stability over temperature.
Your B4 always takes 11seconds to reach 9 bar on pucks and blanks.
more or less, yes. take or give a second with coffee in the basket.
I did not notice what your standard pull time was on all machines
nor your standard volume ( a volume for foam and for fluid @ 5 seconds after
pull completed and total fluid after it stands would help eliminate
assumptions.)
i aim for very basic things like 14 grams, 2oz, 25-30 seconds. i do
stray away from them, to see if things improve, and to learn.
Nor did I pick up a comment on your "consistency of result" on pours
from all 3 machines, whether all taste assessments were made on straight
espresso, stream color, or the impact of adding milk for caps. I can
assume things about the above, but I have already made an error in
assuming you were using a well known bean supply, so I am hesitant to
make too many other assumptions.)
the gaggia is more consistent than the brewtus. with the gaggia i get
almost the same output if the input is the same. with the brewtus, there
can be a little variation, sometimes it's the same, sometimes it isn't.
i have to admit that i haven't tried consistency very much. when i pull
several shot in a row, it is usually with one variable changing and all
the others the same, to compare the results.
Your working hypothesis is that your unsatisfactory B4 results are
attributable to a machine fault associated with the presure profile.
yes. either that, or the temperature fluctuations. these are points i
would like either to eliminate (normal behaviour) or to pinpoint as a
fault and address them.
i have no idea if this is really the cause of my troubles. but i've
tried so many combinations of grind/dose/tamp/temp/pressure and it all
failed, so i am starting to look at possible machine faults as well now.
You are looking for data from other B4 vibe owners that will verify
that your presure profile is abnormal.
that it is either normal or abnormal, yes.
You also seek reassurance from the group that you are not overlooking
a simple "correction" of method that would eliminate the problem you
define.
if someone gave me that 'magical' correction, that would be fantastic.
this would likely be the best possible outcome. i can only hope.
it could also be a combination of things.
If you can verify this, your next steps are not stated.
i am not sure what my next steps would be. i need some help with that, i
started to run out of ideas, occasionally hitting despair.
i feel very lucky that you and others are helping me.
(You imply that the seller will not help you "make it right".)
i did not mean to imply that the seller will not help, it's just a bit
of a complicated issue that i did get the machine from abroad, via ebay.
i do not know these people. i don't speak their language, we can
communicate to some extend in english, but.. i would have to send off my
machine to a foreign country. it seems like a risk. the purchase of this
machine really hurt my financial state, i don't like the idea of a
possible risk.
While you are awaiting the report of other B4-v owners, I would
appreciate it if you would pull 3 shots to the following parameters:
naked PF, Gaggia double basket, 17 grams, 25 second pull, grind
adjusted to produce 2.0 oz net fluid after it stands. Is the machine
producing identical results (+\- 5%) with all 3 pulls or do you
consistently have outliers and or channeling? Please pull the same
setups on the Gaggia and let us know the resulting fluid amount and
taste. thx.
i don't have the gaggia double basket. it came without the basket and
portafilter. i bought a portafilter for it, and use the same basket that
i use with the brewtus. i can perform the test either with the standard
brewtus basket, or with the smaller one that i prefer. i guess the
original brewtus one would be best, since you know that one. tell me
what you think that are the best parameters (amount of coffee and what
else) for that particular basket and i will then run the tests.
the coffee i will use is a single origin from panama, it will be three
days old (if i run the tests tomorrow, what i intend) and it's roasted
full city, stopped on the verge of second crack.
phew, that was a lengthy one. i owe you for even reading through it all. :)
cheers,
guido.
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