--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>I never said Gore is the same as Bush, I have said he's just as bad >as
>Bush in the issues that I see as important. Worse yet, Al Gore >seems to
>also be a compulsive liar.
How is he a compulsive liar? Some of the "lies" he told have been vetted
here as created by journalists or embellished in the retelling.
>At least I really know where G W Bush stands, it seems impossible to tell
>with Al Gore (especially with his VP record >contradicting some of what he
>says now). With Al Gore, I can't >tell if his campaign promises are
>genuine, or if he's just saying >what he thinks the public wants to hear.
My goodness, the only reason West Virginia is favoring Bush and the most
likely reason for Michigan being a toss up is his environmental stand. He
is about two standard deviations away from the national mean towards
environmentalism, about as far as he could be and still have a hope of being
elected nationally.
>
>As for Voting for Nader, again, unless you live in one of the battle
> >ground states (of which there are only 8 at last check)
well CNN has 21 battleground states, and and ABC has 14.
>a vote for Nader is a vote for Nader, it won't affect the outcome.
If Gore loses a state by less than, say, 70% of Nader's total then it is
probable that it is a direct result of people supporting Nader. From what I
see, Gore could lose at least Washington, Oregon, Minn, and Wisconsin
because of Nader voters that would have been Gore voters. I predict that the
most likely outcome is for Gore to lose the election with close losses in
key states, and Nader to get about 4% of the vote.
>
>Either way the election turns out, in the long run, a vote for Nader >will
>make a big difference, both in gaining support for the Green >Party and for
> gaining support for those issues Nader stands for.
Why? Let me relate my memories of '68 and '72. I was anti-War in '68 and
the popular sentiment among the anti-War folks was that Humphrey was as bad
as Nixon. Our old family friend Clean Gene McCarthy (he went to a small
Catholic school with my father and uncle) would not endorse his old friend
Hubert for president after the Chicago convention. Well the upshot of it was
that Nixon got elected in '68 and reelected in '72 by a whopping margin. I
was a McGovern delegate in '72, thinking Humphrey was not liberal enough.
Well, the Democrats lost that election in a landslide. The Democrats
learned a hard lesson in nominating a standard bearer for the true believers
as their candidate. They ended up setting back liberalism instead of
promoting it.
The Green Pary might get 10% of the vote in a few years. Just enough to
ensure continuous Republican landslides If the Democrats move enough to the
left to counter the Green, then the Republicans get the whole center.
>People need to stop looking at just the next 4 years and start looking at
>the real long run.
Why would a third party that's leftist do anything but give elections to the
Republicans? Remember, the Republicans are buying ads that feature Nader.
As someone to the left of center, I would love to see a right wing splinter
party get 10% of the vote. That result in the center between the
Republicans and Democrats drifting a little to the left. All Nader is doing
is forcing the Democrats to move more to the right in order to get votes
from the Republicans. Its standard political theory, BTW. I learned that >
25 years ago in pol. sci. (I'll explain it in detail if asked.)
In short, I�ve been there done that in having thought the Democratic party
wasn�t liberal enough. I thought long and hard about it and think that
people like Gene McCarthy had more than their share of blame in �68.
Looking back, I see that there was a tremendous difference between Nixon and
Humphrey. I would argue that there is a clear difference between Gore and
Bush.
Dan'm Traeki Ring of Crystallized Knowledge.
Known for calculating, but not known for shutting up
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