> From: Alberto Monteiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> The Fool wrote:
> >
> >Lets put together what we know:
> >
> >Earth was never found by any alien species
> >
> This is not true. Check...
> http://www.gayspermbank.com/brin/timeline.htm
> .. and look at year 500 BC: "Last Record about Earth in the Library".
^^^^^
Slight brainfart. Thinking about it carefully I _do_ remember something
about it being 'fallow' for an enormous amount of time. 500 Million
years apparently. Must have been crack smoke coming in from other
listmembers that had me confused.
> >(cept perhaps those elder
> >beings who dove into Sol so very long ago (almost assuredly the
> >progenitors in any case)), never colonized, polluted with alien life,
> >DNA, etc. A pure habitat, untouched.
> >
> Again, not true. Brin Himself hinted that the Cambrian explosion
> might have been triggered by ETs
But is this so-called message that I have never seen directly related to
the uplift universe or to science in general? I do not get from reading
this snippet that this was related to the uplift universe. If it's not
related to the uplift universe then it is irrelevant.
> [from His message on 1999-05-24... good times :-(]
>
> Evidence from meteorites is strong
> that there was a differentiated body that got broken up ~600 million
> years ago, and that that's what many asteroids may be from. If so,
you
> don't have to drill at all: you just find the right asteroid and
harvest
> the whole thing.*
>
> * Some suggest this was one of 3 bits of evidence that the
> solar system was visited in that time frame. The other two were the
> Cambrian "explosion" of life ("somebody flushed a toilet"), and the
> claim that the age-distribution of ore-bodies of certain minerals
that
> might be of interest to advanced civilizations shows a distinct drop
for
> ages >600 million years.
>
> So I would attribute the Cambrian explosion to ETs in the Uplift
Universe.
Perhaps. But that is not proof.
> >
> >But what if the library was programmed that way from it's very
beginning?
> > Such that no record of Sol would ever stay in the archive? No
> >exploration / mass starcharting would ever betray this poor yellow
star?
> >For indeed it is beyond imagining that NO one could ever have not seen
> >Sol in the sky through telescopes / etc. and not marked it down
somehow.
> >How could it not? But it did.
> >
> As we know that hyperspace is unstable, probably what happened was
> that hyperspace was "bad" during the times when humanity grew. This
> would justitify why there is no psi, because psi depends on hyperspace.
This is just theoretical. Perhaps that was so, but 500 million years?
According to the time line ~1/5 of the time since the progenitors? That
is hard to buy. How can you miss something as big as a star for 500
million years? Surely there was at least _some_ ET's who were in the
milky way during these time periods? And don't tell me it was a computer
glitch, computers 2.8 billion more advanced than our own don't make those
kind of mistakes.
-
Aside: It is inconceivable that the streaker would be sending important
information unencrypted to earth. It is possible with the right
algorithm / method / key length that even if every single computer in the
uplift universe were working to solve said encryption they could not do
it before the universe died. That bit where the handheld computer breaks
the encryption in less than an hour (_Infinities Shore_) was laughable.
And that bit in _Earth_ where the psycho computer woman (what was her
name?) breaks the encryption codes is the worst writing Dr Brin has done.
Completely not based in any science / math.
-
> >
> >But what if the library was programmed that way from it's very
beginning?
> >
> :-))))
>
> So, you are applying your paranoia to the Uplift Universe?
>
> - Hi! I am Alberto a Human ul-Chimp ul-Dolphin. What's your name?
>
> - I don't give patronimics to wolflings.
>
> > Such that no record of Sol would ever stay in the archive? No
> >exploration / mass starcharting would ever betray this poor yellow
star?
> >For indeed it is beyond imagining that NO one could ever have not seen
> >Sol in the sky through telescopes / etc. and not marked it down
somehow.
> >How could it not? But it did.
> >
> The neightbourhood of Sol is quite a wasteland of planets. So, maybe
> it was forgotten. Also, we know that hyperspace is not stable, and
> maybe the neighbourhood of Sol suffered more after the last
> collapse.
Computers never forget.
> >But who could perpetrate such a grand conspiracy down through the ages
if
> >not the Progenitors Themselves, who set everything in motion? Who
> >indeed. They were there from the start, and they set the up the
'client'
> >uplift model. They set up the institutions and the _Library_.
> >
> >Now these progenitors are accordingly _Older_ than the universe (or
was
> >it the galaxy cluster, I forget).
> >
> IIRC, they were older than the ships. Oh, I forgot too :-/
It was one of the two I said.
> > How could that be without time-travel?
> >
> When there are stasis fields, these gimmicks can be easily done :-)
Not the older than the universe / galaxy cluster bit. I a separated from
my books so can't research it.
> > These progenitors were from the future. Another thing that is
> >mystifying about these so called progenitors is their uncanny
resemblance
> >to humans. They look verily like humans, only much older, many
billions
> >of years more evolved.
> >
> This might be a fluke of the way they were mummyfied. For
> example, had they been found by Kanten, they might look like
> Kanten.
Perhaps.
> >For indeed who else could the progenitors be? The only race that
> >uplifted itself through millions of years of uninterrupted Darwinian
> >evolution. For indeed no other race could get a chance with all these
> >galactic aliens about everywhere disrupting the natural evolution of
> >every living thing, such that none save those in some grand conspiracy
> >would ever get the chance to self-uplift at all.
> >
> >But it has happened! And it is a grand conspiracy indeed, for how
could
> >it have happened otherwise, that the progenitors be but humans
billions
> >of years in advance, and contrived to make it so humans would evolve
> >without interference. Indeed, it could have happened no other way.
> >
> If you add time-travel to the Uplift Universe, then you open a can
> of worms...
Don't go knocking time travel. I love time travel.
I still think that that is where Dr Brin is/was leading the story.
--The Fool
The book from which the quote comes says that there are only four sorts
of
people: Cretins, Fools, Morons and Lunatics. When you read the
descriptions
of the other three, I am proud to be a Fool.
"A lunatic is easily recognized. He is a moron who doesn't know the
ropes. The moron proves his thesis; he has a logic, however twisted
it may be. The lunatic, on the other hand, doesn't concern himself at
all with logic; he works by short circuits. For him, everything
proves everything else. The lunatic is all idee fixe, and whatever he
comes across confirms his lunacy. You can tell him by the liberties
he takes with common sense, by his flashes of inspiration, and by the
fact that sooner or later he brings up the Templars."
