on 25/9/02 5:08 am, Dan Minette at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William T Goodall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "BRIN-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 10:34 PM
> Subject: Re: how religious fanatics attack free speech
>
>
>> on 25/9/02 3:43 am, Dan Minette at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>>> I thought we had already established on this list that
>>>>
>>>> 1) religious does not equal non-atheist
>>>> 2) atheist does not equal non-religious
>>>> 3) religious does not equal theist (or deist or pantheist even)
>>>
>>> Established means general agreement; I saw two people buy into this
>>> definition. That is not equal to establish. I think that it is
> definition
>>> of convenience for you, allowing you to put movements you don't like
> into
>>> the other camp.
>>
>> ROTFLMAO! That is a hoot Dan. You are a real comedian! You are the one
>> trying to redefine words to suit yourself. I am just referring to
> standard
>> encyclopaedias and dictionaries to clear up the confusion you are trying
> to
>> spread.
>
> Well, I looked it up, and I did see a definition that sorta agreed with
> you at
>
> http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=religion
>
>
> 1) Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as
> creator and governor of the universe.
>
> 2) A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and
> worship.
>
> 3) The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
>
> 4) A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a
> spiritual leader.
>
> 5) A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious
> devotion.
>
> I guess that you are partially right, you can call Marxism a religion by
> the 5th definition I gave. But it can equally be applied to mountain
> climbing, biking, etc.
>
> I admit that I was only considering the first few definitions, and not all
> of them. I'll be happy to admit that Marxism is just as much a religion as
> mountaineering climbing. :-)
>From the Grolier Encyclopaedia. **Emphasis** mine.
"CHARACTERISTICS OF RELIGION
Keeping in mind the dangers of general characterizations, what are the
distinctive features of religion? Several concepts may be isolated that,
even though **not necessary or sufficient conditions if taken separately**,
may jointly be considered "symptomatic" of religions.
The Holy
Religious belief or experience is usually expressed in terms of the holy or
the sacred. The holy is usually in opposition to the everyday and profane
and carries with it a sense of supreme value and ultimate reality. The holy
may be understood as a personal God, as a whole realm of gods and spirits,
as a diffuse power, **as an impersonal order, or in some other way**.
Although the holy may ultimately be nothing but the social order, a
projection of the human mind, or some sort of illusion, it is nevertheless
experienced in religion as an initiating power, coming to human life and
touching it from beyond itself.
Religions frequently claim to have their origin in revelations, that is, in
distinctive experiences of the holy coming into human life. Such revelations
may take the form of visions (Moses in the desert), inner voices (Muhammad
outside Mecca), or events (Israel's exodus from Egypt; the divine wind, or
kamikaze, which destroyed the invading Mongol fleet off Japan; the death and
resurrection of Jesus Christ). Revelations may be similar to ordinary
religious experience, but they have a creative originating power from which
can flow an entire religious tradition.
Response
Response to the holy may take the form of participation in and acquiescence
to the customs and rituals of a religious community or of a commitment of
faith.
Beliefs
As religious traditions develop, they generate systems of belief with
respect to both practice and doctrine. These systems serve to situate the
members of the religious tradition in the world around them and to make
intelligible this world in relation to the holy. In early or primitive
traditions this practice and doctrine usually find expression in bodies of
myth (see mythology) or in ritual law. In those traditions which develop an
extensive literate class, theology often comes to supplant myth as the
vehicle for refining and elaborating belief. The more this happens, the more
the belief system has to be evaluated. The importance attached to right
belief ("orthodoxy") has varied from religion to religion and from period to
period. It has loomed large in Christianity, as for example in the great
Christological and Trinitarian controversies from the 3d century onward.
Rituals and Liturgy
Religious traditions almost invariably involve ritual and liturgical forms
as well as systems of belief.
Ethical Codes
Connected with beliefs is yet another aspect of religion, the possession of
an ethical code incumbent upon the members of the community. This is
particularly evident in highly structured societies such as India, where the
caste system is an integral part of traditional Hinduism.
Community
Although religious solitaries exist, most religion has a social aspect that
leads its adherents to form a community, which may be more or less tightly
organized.
FORMS OF RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE
The complex phenomenon described above constitutes what may be called the
religious experience of humankind. **In different religions and in different
individuals, one or more of the characteristics mentioned may predominate,
whereas others may be weak or almost nonexistent**. This difference explains
why religion is best treated as a polymorphous concept and why it is better
to see religions as **linked by variable family likenesses** than by some
constant but elusive essence.
>From the World Book Encyclopaedia. **Emphasis mine**.
"Most of the leading religions throughout history have shared
characteristics. The chief characteristics include (1) belief in a deity or
in a power beyond the individual, (2) a doctrine (accepted teaching) of
salvation, (3) a code of conduct, (4) the use of sacred stories, and (5)
religious rituals (acts and ceremonies).
The essential qualities of a religion are maintained and passed from
generation to generation by sources, called authority, which the followers
accept as sacred. The most important religious authorities are writings
known as scriptures. Scriptures include the Bibles of Christians and Jews,
the Koran of Muslims, and the Vedas of Hindus. Religious authority also
comes from the writings of saints and other holy persons and from decisions
by religious councils and leaders. Unwritten customs and laws known as
traditions also form a basic part of authority.
Belief in a deity. There are three main philosophical views regarding the
existence of a deity. Atheists believe that no deity exists. Theists
believe in a deity or deities. Agnostics say that the existence of a deity
cannot be proved or disproved. Most of the major religions are theistic.
They teach that deities govern or greatly influence the actions of human
beings as well as events in nature. **Confucianism is the most important
atheistic religion.**"
--
William T Goodall
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk/
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