-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Doug Pensinger
That makes little sense to me, could you step me through how (pseudo) altruism is circular?
It starts with the premise that our characteristics are the result of evolution and therefore altruism must have arise via evolution. It's like arguing that the only reason to have a handgun is to commit a crime, therefore anyone with a handgun must be a criminal.
That still doesn't follow, to me. If it is illegal to own a handgun, anyone in possession of a handgun _is_ a criminal (excluding extraordinary circumstances such as someone planted it on you of course). If our ethics are a product of evolution, any manifestations of those ethics, such as altruism, are also a product of evolution.
I think we can see this two ways -- that faith is impossible for creatures that are not self-aware, since they cannot distinguish between faith and logic, or that they operate entirely on faith, since they have no awareness of logic!
You're right, it's the latter because faith is the more primitive way of dealing with that which is not understood.
Does giving credit to ourselves eliminate a place for God? I don't think it's a zero-sum game...
If we use the word faith it should be in reference to ourselves as in "I have faith that humanity can overcome it's differences and expand beyond the confines of this one infinitesimal planet.
Again, doesn't that leave room for God? I can have the faith you describe and have faith in God. No matter what we discover, the mystery of the very existence of things remains.
And if there is spirituality it is the result of many minds with a defined purpose and a laudable goal.
Until we know everything, which seems logically impossible, we aren't going to know whether or not that's the whole story.
I am not particularly anti-religion. I don't think religion in and of itself is evil. In fact, I believe it has made many positive contributions to our civilization. There are wonderfully selfless and compassionate individuals working in the name of their particular religion and they deserve all the encouragement we can afford them. But I do believe that religion is a manifestation of our inability to explain our circumstances, and that the more we are able to understand and manipulate those circumstances, the less we need faith in something to rationalize the unknown.
There is no doubt in my mind that some religions, were they to dominate our world, would absolutely stifle progressive civilization. The fundamentalist branches of Islam and Christianity come to mind. I think it is essential that we guard against the ascension of such cults.
Doug
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