As Spock would say when confronted in such a way, ...Indeed. He did, however, sound to me like one of many "Everyone who isn't a staunch conservative is out to get the Jews" kind of thinker. If he can come off that way to someone such as myself then he definitely needs to back up his claims that Marx was an anti-Semite.
Hay, I'm a conservative myself, I favor Capitalism and Democracy, and I am definitely not an anti-Semite. There was a time before I could drive that I considered the benefits of a more highly structured system such as Marxism. I read just about everything I could find on the subject. I decided that the benefits were unattainable. But I do not recall at any time reading anything about Marx as an anti-Semite, or anything that would have suggested such from his writings. You would think that if Marx was an anti-Semite, we would have learned that in my survey course. We did after all learn that many Germans of the time were. Dan, you have many times requested references, and in this case I think that some reference is warranted. We are talking about what someone said after all. What Gautam has said is to me akin to being told that Hitler was a Communist, or that Stalin was a Christian. You can't just blurt stuff like that out with out some proof. You would think that if it were the case, then it would be just as common knowledge as that Stalin was an Atheist and Hitler hated Communism. Besides, if you are going to say something so incredible, and provocative, and you have the credentials to be believed, then you have the responsibility to at least list said credentials. Otherwise it's just another form of trolling. Intellectual trolling, is no better than the idiotic variety. If you have such a position then you gain a lot of responsibility, wouldn't you say? Responsibility like that of a black belt not to get into a fight, since such a fight might be lethal for the opponent. --- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jan Coffey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 12:40 AM > Subject: Re: Dogmatism > > > > > > --- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jan Coffey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 1:37 PM > > > Subject: Re: Dogmatism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And then there was some other rambelings by someone who clearly has > not > > > > studied Marx, and instead has listened to some bs from some dogmatic > > > group. > > > > > > Out of curiosity, who taught the Marxism class that you took, Jan? > > > > I do not remember his name. The class was on world history and political > > systems. We spent 3 weeks on Marxism/communism, 3 on fascism, the other > 10 on > > other various systems inclusing several forms of capitalist democracy. > > > > Why do you ask? > > Because, as far as I can tell, you took a swipe at Gautam's education in > the field. He received a degree in government from Harvard, with a > specialization in international affairs. His thesis advisor was Stanley > Hoffman, who is one of the two or three most accomplished liberal thinkers > in international relations. He Marxism professor was Harvey Mansfield, who > is considered the foremost conservative political philosopher. > > Gautam also worked at the John F. Kennedy school of government at Harvard, > specializing in Russian affairs. > > I know that Dr. Hoffman thought very well of Gautam's work, even though > he's liberal and Gautam's conservative. Its hard to fathom anyone having > such a favorable impression of someone who is ignorant and dogmatic in > opposition to one's own beliefs. Gaining such a favorable review from one > of the most respected writers who disagrees with you typically indicates > real talent. > > Given that, I was very curious to see what gave you the bases for > dismissing very well respected Harvard professors out of hand. With all > due respect, I do not believe that having taken a survey course from > someone who's name you cannot remember is sufficient basis for such > dismissal.** > > That doesn't mean that you need to lie down and play dead if Gautam writes > something you disagree with. I don't have a Harvard education in political > science, and I'm more than willing to take him on, as the archives of > brin-l over the last 5+ years should show. However, in our disagreements, > I know that Gautam is a very reasonable person who just happens to be wrong > on a particular issue. :-) > > As an aside, what I'd really like to see is Gautam and Ritu go at it over > international affairs. Both are very articulate debaters who tend to > appreciate the subtleties of a problem. They have fascinating > similarities/differences in background as an Indian and as a second > generation American of Indian decent. Further, neither tends to devolve > into a polemic arguments when debating ideas. > > Dan M. > > ** If it wasn't Gautam you were dissing, I've misunderstood your post. > But, I looked at who replied to Tom before you did and his post was the > only one I saw. > > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ===== _________________________________________________ Jan William Coffey _________________________________________________ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
