>>Khmer Rough is a brain child, an > > extension of the Vietnamese Communist party that went rogue and quite > > ballistic because there were also some Khmer intellect and nationalist > > in the moment.
> Please explain it to us why did they have to invade to tople Khmer > Rouge if Vietnamese had controlled Khmer Rouge regime? I believe if you understood what I said and what you quote above you'll see the answer is already plainly explicated. > Khmer Rouge was so tight that no others could do anything to explote > the regime. > They killed themselves when they started to kill their own people like > Hun Sen, Heng Samrin etc..... No regime is full proof to infiltration. You're giving Khmer Rough way too much credit here Kangaroo. The fact is Khmer Rough were messy and things run amok a lower level enforcement level - which was what Hun Sen was at (enforcers, commanders, the actual hands on killers). Thus only a few group of people are so secretive supposedly cannot be "exploited" that group included the original founders like Salot Sar, Ieng Sary, Kieu Samphan, and Ta Mok. > My friend, > Many people think that those Cambodians who ran to Vietnam were > against the genocide. I have to disagree with that. Those people were > a part of the Khmer Rouge regime. The regime itself started the > killings from the very beginnings. Their rhetorics started at the > minute they took the victory. Hmm. I don't recall stating my opinion on what the people who ran to Vietnam was either for or against the genocide. In Pol Pot's own words, but let's take his with a grain of salt - nevertheless we must take it to hear both sides, those who ran to Vietnam went because their plot to topple the KR regime was found out. This group's plot according to Saloth Sar [Pol Pot] was controlled by Hanoi, they want to retake control of the Khmer Communist so they needed a more agreeable partner or subservient one - Pol Pot was not. > > > The Khmer Communist that Vietnam helped to create had both Khmer > > intellect, nationalist, and Khmer ignorant and poor peasants who were > > eager to rise to power. Face it, after living your life as a miserable > > and poor farmer boy, what ignorant person would not throw away the > > chance of becoming the strongest man in the country. Certainly Hun Sen > > didn't. He remained faithful with the original intention of the > > Communist Indochina block, to merge the Indochinese federation. > > So you are saying that Hun Sen and Pol Pot are the same in ideology. > I have to disagree because they simply are not. Pol Pot believe in > creating a pure society faithful to the community party. Hun Sen on > the other hands are still searching for his identity. He really > doesn't have any idelology. No, please read my statement again slowly. No where in there did I say or imply that Hun Sen had any inkling of what true Communist meant or that he had the intellectual capacity to understand it. Pol Pot, Khieu Samphan, Ieng Sary were all scholars and French educated university students who became enchanted by Communist ideals because they were disillusion by the unfair and corrupt feudal society of Cambodia. However, to summarize their resentments and disappointment of Cambodia into one sentence or under one topic is imprecise and does no justice to their original convictions and reason for wanting to restart Cambodia society - we should hear it from their own voice. Indeed as you say, Hun Sen doesn't really have an identity. The identity that he got was created and molded for him by Hanoi. He was the perfect clean and naive slate for which Cambodia can be use to held a hostage of Vietnam's Indochina ambition. He is the type of individuals I mention above as having the peasant and uneducated background that was eager and keen to do whatever his superiors pleases in order to gain power and control to compensate for his low birth and underdog status lacking that he must have felt. > > Here is what I say. I suggest that Cambodians join Vietnam as one > country so the people of Cambodia can stop living under fear from > fighting among Cambodians themselves in their own nation endlessly. > However, I strongly believe that Cambodians would be better joining > Thailand instead. The people of Cambodia can enjoy the resilience that > the kingdom of thailand has to offer. Let's encourage them to join > Thailand as one country under the leadership of Thai monarchy. And why do you think Cambodians always seem to be living in fear and "fighting among themselves" endlessly? Cambodian live in fear not of other Cambodians, but they live in fear of losing their independence to Vietnam and Thailand. So suggesting that Cambodia joins either Thai or Vietnam then is making a mockery of the Cambodian people's rights to exist a free independent country exercising its own autonomy. If Vietnam or Thailand could leave Cambodia as they are for a minute after having gain so much already, 21 provinces in South Vietnam and an entire nation for Thailand, maybe we could actually finally live in peace and security. The facts illuminate it selves as to who really control Cambodia and who Cambodians are really living in fear of. -in 2005-06 at least for critics (Kem Sokha, Ou Virak, Mam Sonando, Rong Chun) of Cambodian-Vietnam supplemental border treaty were arrested to keep them silent. Sam Rainsy went into exiled then -In 2007 Ven. monk Eang Sok Thoun was found with his throat slit with multiple slashes in his locked room in Cambodia after attending a protest and march in front of Viet embassy. -In June, 2007 Vietnam kidnapped Ven. monk Tim Sakhorn with the help of Cambodian security forces from his temple in Phnom Denh where he later resurfaced in Ang Giang in a Vietnamese prison and court. -Jan. 2010 Cambodian citizen Meas Srey and Prum Chea imprison for calling for return and compensation of their ancestral farmland lost by the border stake installed by Vietnam -Jan. 2010 Mr. Sam Rainsy sent into exile to avoid arrest also stemming from Vietnam criticism -In May 2010 Mr.Thach Le who was arrested in Cambodia for having and reading documents pertaining to the "roots" of January 7th -in June 2010 Ven. Thach Vannak also arrested in Cambodia for having documents on his computer tying Vietnam and current Khmer leaders. -July 2010, a Cambodian Human rights activist was arrested -August 2010 Leang Sokchouen, staff person of the Cambodian League for the Promotion and Defense of Human Rights (LICADHO) arrested for supposedly distributing leaflets critical of government and ties to Hanoi -August 2010 former Khmer Krom monks – Thach Le and Thach Vannak, also arrested with alleged crime of distributing leaflets critical of Jan. 7th day of Vietnam saving and start of occupation The list goes on in both direction and will continue to go in the future in the same trend. The question is what do we see in common in all these cases? Vietnam. Vietnam is the common subject and core in all these cases. So why are Cambodian citizens arrested for expressing opinions and sometimes alleged sentiments about this Cambodia-Vietnam dynamo friendship relations? The fact is plain, Cambodia's neighbor continue to interfere and cause fear and intimidation in Cambodia's society. Particularly Vietnam, its hand and fragrant violation of Cambodia's sovereignty is legitimized by Hun Sen's regime. So while it appears Khmers are "killing" or "fighting" Khmers endless, is just a fact looked from a different window seen as Khmers being used as chicken in a cockfight bet. If these neighbors stop meddling in the Khmer affairs for once, Khmer can and will have a stable and prosperous country again. Stop sending illegal Vietnamese over to stay and help win the election for Hun Sen. Hun Sen can fool the international community, but he can't fool Khmer and Khmer Krom people. We have ears and eye. In plain words, I was told by a poor frighten Vietnamese lady that although she was not a legal resident she was given document to vote for Hun Sen in order to stay in Cambodia [the last election]. Obviously if she had came over legally she had nothing to be afraid of, no one would send her back to Vietnam if Hun Sen lost. She could apply for legal status legally as well rather than just being frighten and participating in an illegal bloated election to ensure the legal status of Vietnam's continue control of Cambodia through Hun Sen. Cambodia without Hun Sen and his puppet master is rather a very acceptable and liberal country now. We have laws to accept asylum seekers and refugees. we have UNHCR office in our country and various NGOs, if Hun Sen lost today, Cambodians aren't going to wreak havoc and start harassing and assaulting Vietnamese people to go back home. > > Cambodians have to decide what their fate is. I just give my opinion > with the reasoning behind it. > What they do is their business. What I say is my view. Thank you for respecting our given rights! We have decided and unanimously, we citizens of Cambodia in Kampuchea and in Kampuchea Krom wants our beloved homeland to stay free and independent of any foreign intervention and interference for either Vietnam or Thailand. Now we wish Hanoi and its puppet Hun Sen can do the same and let Cambodians decide their own fate. > > You are saying that it is a matter of national survival. Let me look > back into the past history. > > Lon Nol topled Sihanouk and fought Vietcong in Cambodia. > Lon Nol then fought Vietcongs and Khmer Rouge all together later on. > Khmer Rouge joined a coalition with Sihanouk. It now becomes a bigger > force. > Khmer Rouge took victory and then killed their own people in millions. > Then Hun Sen and others went to Vietnam and came back to tople Khmer > Rouge. > Now, there are other factions like Sam Rainsy are trying to take over > from cpp etc..... Why did Lon Nol topple Sihanouk? Did you remember? I think you are old enough to recall that when Lon Nol toppled Sihanouk it was also this zeal for survival that he and the congress of Cambodia decided on this decision. It was not a Lon decision alone, it was a legitimate congress vote of lack of confidence of Prince Sihanouk because he was too easy and soft of Viet Minh allowing them use Cambodia as base. Lon Nol came to power and gave a 72 hour ultimatum to all Communist Vietnamese forces to leave Cambodia. Obviously that wasn't going to happen? What do you think Vietnam would do, just get up and leave? Don't think so. Khmer Rough, again, recall my position way way above, that they were created first as brain child of Bac Ho Chi Minh's Indochina communist federation party. Both Pol Pot and Sihanouk got played by Ho Chi Minh. Some politicians are good, others are genius, credit is given to where it belong, Ho Chi Minh was a masterful politician and strategist. > > If I look at this history, I can sum it all that Cambodians fight each > other in their own country for power. To modern day, why do we have Sam Rainsy and others vying for power in Cambodia? My friend, Cambodia unlike Vietnam was given start foundation by UNTAC in 92 based on the "democracy" framework. So thus we have multiple parties competing for a chance to lead Cambodia with their vision of a better future. Unfortunately Cambodia of today led by Hun Sen and supported politically, and militarily by Hanoi, does not understand this framework of democracy and continue to inflict suffering on Cambodian citizens and also practices political intimidation and assassination. I mean what do you expect when Cambodia and Vietnam hold so much close friendship and "share experience" with each other? Hun Sen learns indeed from his best to shut his opponent up and jail any uprising political opponents. This is same as sending dissidents, lawyers, monks, priest and scholars to jail or under house arrest in Vietnam. So Hun sen through all his experience gathering from Hanoi also practices what Hanoi practices rather than the democracy legacy left over that the U.N. > Do you know who suffer from all of those things? > You are right. The general Cambodian population. They have been > suffered time and time again from no one but their own people in their > own country. It is time for all Cambodian factions to put their own > rhetorics aside and think about the interest of their own people > first. You have seen the rhetorics of the people who live overseas. > They want Cambodia to be what they have today in America, France > etc.......... It will never happen. Instead, you are going to see > struggle one against another endlessly. Again, struggle against each other is a normal part of a healthy society. Everywhere opposing view points struggle to lead the country in what they see is best. Republic vs Democract, Socialist vs. Republic, Monarchy vs Republic, whatever in wherever. The only difference here in Cambodia is that unfortunately we have noisy countries for neighbors and can't seem to laid their hands off us. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cambodia Discussion (CAMDISC) - www.cambodia.org" group. This is an unmoderated forum. Please refrain from using foul language. Thank you for your understanding. Peace among us and in Cambodia. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/camdisc Learn more - http://www.cambodia.org
