On Sep 5, 4:40 am, Pheng Kim Ving <[email protected]> wrote: > When are you going to be less silly and to realize that your blaming > on other nations for your chopping the heads of each other means that > you're following the order of foreigners to chop the heads of each > other, and thus that you're the most idiotic idiots in the world?? >
Thank you.... > When are you going to be less silly and to realize that the communist > Laotians were also created by the communist Vietnamese but they didn't > chop the heads of their own people the Laotian people?? > Thank you. > When are you going to be less silly and to realize that no other > government in the world history has ever committed a genocide against > its own people?? > Thank you very much. > Pheng Kim Ving > > On Aug 30, 6:22 am, LeHai <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > The topic of Vietnamese[Hanoi] hands behind Khmer Rough can be found > > in the documentary film Year Zero. The documentary briefly explains > > the love hate and power struggle relationship between these two > > forces. Let us remember that Khmer Rough is a brain child, an > > extension of the Vietnamese Communist party that went rogue and quite > > ballistic because there were also some Khmer intellect and nationalist > > in the moment. > > > The Khmer Communist that Vietnam helped to create had both Khmer > > intellect, nationalist, and Khmer ignorant and poor peasants who were > > eager to rise to power. Face it, after living your life as a miserable > > and poor farmer boy, what ignorant person would not throw away the > > chance of becoming the strongest man in the country. Certainly Hun Sen > > didn't. He remained faithful with the original intention of the > > Communist Indochina block, to merge the Indochinese federation. > > > Kangaroo keeps saying Khmer people hate Vietnamese, fine, let's say > > they do. But give them a reason why they shouldn't hate or be vigilant > > of our country? Here you are espousing and supporting the Nam Tien > > manifesto, it is even on your profile "We will swallow Cambodia" that > > you are one of those Vietnamese people and group that still holds this > > ambition. > > > If China that you're a renegade province and wants to swallow you back > > into its country, wouldn't you do everything you can to protect that, > > even if it means to keep a constant reminder of resentful emotion? > > > It is clearly a matter of national survival and people's need for > > space and their own independence. > > > On Aug 20, 5:19 pm, kangaroo <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Can you answer some of these questions since you seem to know alot? > > > If Vietnamese is behind Khmer Rouge, why khmer rouge invaded vietnam > > > and killed vietnamese villagers? > > > If Vietnamees is behind khmer rouge, why did they have to invade > > > cambodia to tople khmer rouge, the regime that they orchestrated as > > > you suggested?\ > > > Now, if CPP is behind Vietnamese, why are thousands and thousands of > > > cambodians working for CPP? > > > > You tend to think thatat you are not one of those who joined the > > > Vietnamese. Can you tell us why are those Cambodians today so stupid > > > to working for Vietnam? > > > > I am begging you to explain these matters so we all can understand as > > > you. > > > Thank you > > > > On Aug 20, 11:56 am, "Bopha Angkor" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Lok Koeun Sam Ung after the definition of R.J Rummel, polpot and few > > > > comrades were sacrificed or politicide by yuons to be replace by > > > > another yuon political tools more easy for yuons to handle for failing > > > > to obey to yuons orders and yuon wills as the cpp clan did. Or it's > > > > just a step of yuon political strategies. Polpot and few of his > > > > comrades has no other choice than to face their old masters while these > > > > last ones didn't need them anymore or just want to eliminate them from > > > > the yuon political spinal column. Pham van dong said, yuons know what > > > > to do with their creatures or political tools/pets, while to use bottom > > > > and while to satisfy with a piece meat. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Koeun Sam Ung > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 8:33 AM > > > > Subject: Vietnamese Democide > > > > > STATISTICS OF DEMOCIDE > > > > > Chapter 6 > > > > > Statistics Of > > > > Vietnamese Democide > > > > Estimates, Calculations, And Sources* > > > > > By R.J. Rummel > > > > > Genocide: among other things, the killing of people by a government > > > > because of their indelible group membership (race, ethnicity, religion, > > > > language). > > > > > Politicide: the murder of any person or people by a government > > > > because of their politics or for political purposes. > > > > > Mass Murder: the indiscriminate killing of any person or people by a > > > > government. > > > > > Democide: The murder of any person or people by a government, > > > > including genocide, politicide, and mass murder. > > > > > Perhaps of all countries, democide in Vietnam and by Vietnamese is > > > > most difficult to unravel and assess. It is mixed in with six wars > > > > spanning 43 years (the Indochina War, Vietnam War, Cambodian War, > > > > subsequent guerrilla war in Cambodia, guerrilla war in Laos, and > > > > Sino-Vietnamese War), one of them involving the United States; a near > > > > twenty-one year formal division of the country into two sovereign North > > > > and South parts; the full communization of the North; occupation of > > > > neighboring countries by both North and South; defeat, absorption, and > > > > communization of the South; and the massive flight by sea of > > > > Vietnamese. As best as I can determine, through all this close to > > > > 3,800,000 Vietnamese lost their lives from political violence, or near > > > > one out of every ten men, women, and children.1 Of these, about > > > > 1,250,000, or near a third of those killed, were murdered. > > > > > Tables 6.1A and 6.1B give the sources, estimates and calculations of > > > > Vietnamese killed. As noted, Vietnam was involved in several wars and > > > > was for twenty-one years formally divided into two nation-states, North > > > > and South Vietnam. Moreover, both parts of Vietnam committed democide > > > > against their own people as well as in other countries, and democide > > > > was committed by foreigners against them. Not only is Vietnam's history > > > > complex, therefore, but the estimates of those killed in war and > > > > democide differ considerably by perpetrator, victims, time, and place. > > > > For these reasons I have made a special effort to divide the estimates > > > > into the smallest consistent groups and where possible to use the > > > > resulting consolidated figures to cross check totals and subtotals. > > > > > This will be seen, for example, in calculating the total war-dead > > > > (lines 1 to 261 in Table 6.1A). The first war was that against the > > > > French, defined here as beginning when the Viet Minh established the > > > > Democratic Republic of Vietnam in September 1945 and lasting until July > > > > 1954. I divide estimates of war-dead and their calculations or > > > > consolidations into those for the Viet Minh (lines 3 to 4), France > > > > (lines 7 to 18), civilians (lines 22 to 25), military (lines 28 to 30), > > > > and total war-dead (lines 33 to 44). The total war-dead is the figure > > > > of interest here, but before accepting its consolidation (line 44) it > > > > can be checked against two other ways of getting the total. One is by > > > > adding together the separately determined figures for Viet Minh, > > > > French, and civilian war-dead (line 45); the other by adding civilian > > > > and military war-dead (line 46). This gives us three total war dead > > > > ranges for comparison (lines 44 to 46). The three mid-values tend to be > > > > relatively close, while the lows and highs are quite divergent. Since > > > > we generally want the higher high and lower low, I selected these for > > > > the final total and averaged the three mid-values (line 47). > > > > Subtracting then the non-Vietnamese war-dead (line 49) gives the cost > > > > of the Indochina War as 188,000 to 1,153,000, or 512,000 Vietnamese > > > > lives. > > > > > War-dead estimates for the Vietnam War abound (lines 53 to 214). I > > > > divide these first into civilian and total war-dead for North Vietnam > > > > and consolidate them (lines 54 to 67). Then I pull out estimates for > > > > Viet Cong war-dead (which may or may not also include North Vietnamese > > > > regulars--lines 69 to 83) and I give separately those estimates > > > > explicitly for both North Vietnamese and Viet Cong war-dead (lines 88 > > > > to 102). For both sets the estimates vary in the years and duration > > > > they cover. Accordingly, ignoring estimates for one year or those whose > > > > periods or coverage are unclear, I extrapolated the estimates for the > > > > years of the war. That is, > > > > > extrapolated estimate = (years of war)(estimate/years it covers). > > > > > Since many estimates here and later will be so extrapolated, the date > > > > taken for the beginning of the war is statistically important. I > > > > selected January 1960 based on those considerations given in Death By > > > > Government.2 That is, as evidenced by their activity, such as the > > > > building of the Ho Chi Minh trial, secret speeches by North Vietnamese > > > > leaders, orders to their operatives, and the creation of political > > > > front organizations in the south, by this date Hanoi clearly had > > > > prepared the way for and had begun a sustained guerrilla and military > > > > effort to take over the country. This means that the war lasted for > > > > 15.33 years. > > > > > However, the war was not equally violent and deadly for each of these > > > > years. It was far less intense in the early years than after the full > > > > American involvement in 1965. To take into account this possible shift > > > > in violence, therefore, I calculated three extrapolations for each > > > > estimate, where I made "years of war" successively equal to 12, 13, and > > > > 14. Even then this may seem to under or overly weight the estimates, > > > > especially for the early 1960s before the United States was fully > > > > involved; or those for the period of greatest violence during 1966 to > > > > 1969. In any case, I will subsequently check on these results by > > > > comparing them against total war-dead estimates. > > > > > Returning now to Table 6.1A and the consolidation of the North > > > > Vietnamese and Viet Cong war-dead estimates and extrapolations (line > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cambodia Discussion (CAMDISC) - www.cambodia.org" group. This is an unmoderated forum. Please refrain from using foul language. Thank you for your understanding. Peace among us and in Cambodia. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/camdisc Learn more - http://www.cambodia.org
