When are you going to be less silly and to realize that your blaming on other nations for your chopping the heads of each other means that you're following the order of foreigners to chop the heads of each other, and thus that you're the most idiotic idiots in the world??
When are you going to be less silly and to realize that the communist Laotians were also created by the communist Vietnamese but they didn't chop the heads of their own people the Laotian people?? When are you going to be less silly and to realize that no other government in the world history has ever committed a genocide against its own people?? Pheng Kim Ving On Aug 30, 6:22 am, LeHai <[email protected]> wrote: > The topic of Vietnamese[Hanoi] hands behind Khmer Rough can be found > in the documentary film Year Zero. The documentary briefly explains > the love hate and power struggle relationship between these two > forces. Let us remember that Khmer Rough is a brain child, an > extension of the Vietnamese Communist party that went rogue and quite > ballistic because there were also some Khmer intellect and nationalist > in the moment. > > The Khmer Communist that Vietnam helped to create had both Khmer > intellect, nationalist, and Khmer ignorant and poor peasants who were > eager to rise to power. Face it, after living your life as a miserable > and poor farmer boy, what ignorant person would not throw away the > chance of becoming the strongest man in the country. Certainly Hun Sen > didn't. He remained faithful with the original intention of the > Communist Indochina block, to merge the Indochinese federation. > > Kangaroo keeps saying Khmer people hate Vietnamese, fine, let's say > they do. But give them a reason why they shouldn't hate or be vigilant > of our country? Here you are espousing and supporting the Nam Tien > manifesto, it is even on your profile "We will swallow Cambodia" that > you are one of those Vietnamese people and group that still holds this > ambition. > > If China that you're a renegade province and wants to swallow you back > into its country, wouldn't you do everything you can to protect that, > even if it means to keep a constant reminder of resentful emotion? > > It is clearly a matter of national survival and people's need for > space and their own independence. > > On Aug 20, 5:19 pm, kangaroo <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Can you answer some of these questions since you seem to know alot? > > If Vietnamese is behind Khmer Rouge, why khmer rouge invaded vietnam > > and killed vietnamese villagers? > > If Vietnamees is behind khmer rouge, why did they have to invade > > cambodia to tople khmer rouge, the regime that they orchestrated as > > you suggested?\ > > Now, if CPP is behind Vietnamese, why are thousands and thousands of > > cambodians working for CPP? > > > You tend to think thatat you are not one of those who joined the > > Vietnamese. Can you tell us why are those Cambodians today so stupid > > to working for Vietnam? > > > I am begging you to explain these matters so we all can understand as > > you. > > Thank you > > > On Aug 20, 11:56 am, "Bopha Angkor" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Lok Koeun Sam Ung after the definition of R.J Rummel, polpot and few > > > comrades were sacrificed or politicide by yuons to be replace by another > > > yuon political tools more easy for yuons to handle for failing to obey > > > to yuons orders and yuon wills as the cpp clan did. Or it's just a step > > > of yuon political strategies. Polpot and few of his comrades has no other > > > choice than to face their old masters while these last ones didn't need > > > them anymore or just want to eliminate them from the yuon political > > > spinal column. Pham van dong said, yuons know what to do with their > > > creatures or political tools/pets, while to use bottom and while to > > > satisfy with a piece meat. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Koeun Sam Ung > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 8:33 AM > > > Subject: Vietnamese Democide > > > > STATISTICS OF DEMOCIDE > > > > Chapter 6 > > > > Statistics Of > > > Vietnamese Democide > > > Estimates, Calculations, And Sources* > > > > By R.J. Rummel > > > > Genocide: among other things, the killing of people by a government > > > because of their indelible group membership (race, ethnicity, religion, > > > language). > > > > Politicide: the murder of any person or people by a government because > > > of their politics or for political purposes. > > > > Mass Murder: the indiscriminate killing of any person or people by a > > > government. > > > > Democide: The murder of any person or people by a government, including > > > genocide, politicide, and mass murder. > > > > Perhaps of all countries, democide in Vietnam and by Vietnamese is most > > > difficult to unravel and assess. It is mixed in with six wars spanning 43 > > > years (the Indochina War, Vietnam War, Cambodian War, subsequent > > > guerrilla war in Cambodia, guerrilla war in Laos, and Sino-Vietnamese > > > War), one of them involving the United States; a near twenty-one year > > > formal division of the country into two sovereign North and South parts; > > > the full communization of the North; occupation of neighboring countries > > > by both North and South; defeat, absorption, and communization of the > > > South; and the massive flight by sea of Vietnamese. As best as I can > > > determine, through all this close to 3,800,000 Vietnamese lost their > > > lives from political violence, or near one out of every ten men, women, > > > and children.1 Of these, about 1,250,000, or near a third of those > > > killed, were murdered. > > > > Tables 6.1A and 6.1B give the sources, estimates and calculations of > > > Vietnamese killed. As noted, Vietnam was involved in several wars and was > > > for twenty-one years formally divided into two nation-states, North and > > > South Vietnam. Moreover, both parts of Vietnam committed democide against > > > their own people as well as in other countries, and democide was > > > committed by foreigners against them. Not only is Vietnam's history > > > complex, therefore, but the estimates of those killed in war and democide > > > differ considerably by perpetrator, victims, time, and place. For these > > > reasons I have made a special effort to divide the estimates into the > > > smallest consistent groups and where possible to use the resulting > > > consolidated figures to cross check totals and subtotals. > > > > This will be seen, for example, in calculating the total war-dead > > > (lines 1 to 261 in Table 6.1A). The first war was that against the > > > French, defined here as beginning when the Viet Minh established the > > > Democratic Republic of Vietnam in September 1945 and lasting until July > > > 1954. I divide estimates of war-dead and their calculations or > > > consolidations into those for the Viet Minh (lines 3 to 4), France (lines > > > 7 to 18), civilians (lines 22 to 25), military (lines 28 to 30), and > > > total war-dead (lines 33 to 44). The total war-dead is the figure of > > > interest here, but before accepting its consolidation (line 44) it can be > > > checked against two other ways of getting the total. One is by adding > > > together the separately determined figures for Viet Minh, French, and > > > civilian war-dead (line 45); the other by adding civilian and military > > > war-dead (line 46). This gives us three total war dead ranges for > > > comparison (lines 44 to 46). The three mid-values tend to be relatively > > > close, while the lows and highs are quite divergent. Since we generally > > > want the higher high and lower low, I selected these for the final total > > > and averaged the three mid-values (line 47). Subtracting then the > > > non-Vietnamese war-dead (line 49) gives the cost of the Indochina War as > > > 188,000 to 1,153,000, or 512,000 Vietnamese lives. > > > > War-dead estimates for the Vietnam War abound (lines 53 to 214). I > > > divide these first into civilian and total war-dead for North Vietnam and > > > consolidate them (lines 54 to 67). Then I pull out estimates for Viet > > > Cong war-dead (which may or may not also include North Vietnamese > > > regulars--lines 69 to 83) and I give separately those estimates > > > explicitly for both North Vietnamese and Viet Cong war-dead (lines 88 to > > > 102). For both sets the estimates vary in the years and duration they > > > cover. Accordingly, ignoring estimates for one year or those whose > > > periods or coverage are unclear, I extrapolated the estimates for the > > > years of the war. That is, > > > > extrapolated estimate = (years of war)(estimate/years it covers). > > > > Since many estimates here and later will be so extrapolated, the date > > > taken for the beginning of the war is statistically important. I selected > > > January 1960 based on those considerations given in Death By Government.2 > > > That is, as evidenced by their activity, such as the building of the Ho > > > Chi Minh trial, secret speeches by North Vietnamese leaders, orders to > > > their operatives, and the creation of political front organizations in > > > the south, by this date Hanoi clearly had prepared the way for and had > > > begun a sustained guerrilla and military effort to take over the country. > > > This means that the war lasted for 15.33 years. > > > > However, the war was not equally violent and deadly for each of these > > > years. It was far less intense in the early years than after the full > > > American involvement in 1965. To take into account this possible shift in > > > violence, therefore, I calculated three extrapolations for each estimate, > > > where I made "years of war" successively equal to 12, 13, and 14. Even > > > then this may seem to under or overly weight the estimates, especially > > > for the early 1960s before the United States was fully involved; or those > > > for the period of greatest violence during 1966 to 1969. In any case, I > > > will subsequently check on these results by comparing them against total > > > war-dead estimates. > > > > Returning now to Table 6.1A and the consolidation of the North > > > Vietnamese and Viet Cong war-dead estimates and extrapolations (line > > > 102), this may be checked against those consolidations of the separate > > > war-dead estimates and extrapolations (line 67 and 83) by summing them > > > (line 104). As can be seen, the two different ways of determining North > > > Vietnamese and Viet Cong war-dead yield roughly equal mid and high > > > totals. For a preliminary war-dead range, I take the lowest low and > > > highest high and average the two mid-values (line 105). This is > > > preliminary since in the light of subsequent figures for war-deaths among > > > South Vietnamese and other forces, it may have to be adjusted. > > > > I follow similar procedures to determine a preliminary South Vietnamese > > > war-dead range (lines 108 to 140). Note that the two ways of estimating > > > this range (lines 138 and 139) yield fairly close mid and high totals, > > > but still must be treated with caution. Unlike with the North > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cambodia Discussion (CAMDISC) - www.cambodia.org" group. This is an unmoderated forum. Please refrain from using foul language. Thank you for your understanding. Peace among us and in Cambodia. 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