> No regime is full proof to infiltration. You're giving Khmer Rough way > too much credit here Kangaroo. The fact is Khmer Rough were messy and > things run amok a lower level enforcement level - which was what Hun > Sen was at (enforcers, commanders, the actual hands on killers). Thus > only a few group of people are so secretive supposedly cannot be > "exploited" that group included the original founders like Salot Sar, > Ieng Sary, Kieu Samphan, and Ta Mok. >
The Khmer Rouge chaos didn't just happened at the lower level if you learned about through the history of that era. I don't remember how many division they had. There was only one division that took control of the country at the end. That was when they started to gather the other divisional official to kill. They also herted ordinary people in thousands to be smashed as well. That was when they really weakened their old regime. Beside, Vietnamese was on the loom to destroy them. You are also right about the chaotics at the bottom levels. Actactually, it happened all over the country from the very beginning. There was no secret about it. Those top leaders are acting today like they didn't know to save their fate today. > Hmm. I don't recall stating my opinion on what the people who ran to > Vietnam was either for or against the genocide. > In Pol Pot's own words, but let's take his with a grain of salt - > nevertheless we must take it to hear both sides, those who ran to > Vietnam went because their plot to topple the KR regime was found out. > This group's plot according to Saloth Sar [Pol Pot] was controlled by > Hanoi, they want to retake control of the Khmer Communist so they > needed a more agreeable partner or subservient one - Pol Pot was not. > > Can you tell me why Vietnamese topled Khmer Rouge regime if Hanoi controlled the regime as you claim again? Are you telling us that current government is the real cambodian communist party controlled by Vietnam? If they are, I don't understand why the US government cannot see it. > No, please read my statement again slowly. No where in there did I say > or imply that Hun Sen had any inkling of what true Communist meant or > that he had the intellectual capacity to understand it. Pol Pot, Khieu > Samphan, Ieng Sary were all scholars and French educated university > students who became enchanted by Communist ideals because they were > disillusion by the unfair and corrupt feudal society of Cambodia. Here is a substance that we can discuss. Let me use your writing " disillusion by the unfair and corrupt feudal society of Cambodia." for discussion. You are right that they had that disillusion. The reality was that Cambodia was corrupted and unfair society. The poor got poorer, while the rich got richer. There were many classes within the society. One class suppressed another. The poor got poorer and passed on their poverty to their newer generation endlessly. You have heard these words before, and it is very true. That was why the Cambodian peasants joined the Khmer Rouge movement. That was why they killed people with their anger after they took the victory. We are not saying that it was a right thing to do. We are stating the facts. > However, to summarize their resentments and disappointment of Cambodia > into one sentence or under one topic is imprecise and does no justice > to their original convictions and reason for wanting to restart > Cambodia society - we should hear it from their own voice. > They may have done it to the point that humanity doesn't like it. However, the Khmer Rouge movement was a genuine movement leading to something of their imagination. It didn't work. That's why we are arguing it today. otherwise, we might just hate or love it. > Indeed as you say, Hun Sen doesn't really have an identity. The > identity that he got was created and molded for him by Hanoi. He was > the perfect clean and naive slate for which Cambodia can be use to > held a hostage of Vietnam's Indochina ambition. He is the type of > individuals I mention above as having the peasant and uneducated > background that was eager and keen to do whatever his superiors > pleases in order to gain power and control to compensate for his low > birth and underdog status lacking that he must have felt. > > I agree with you except the point that Vietnam is all behind this government. My point is that Cambodians in Cambodia today must be stupid that they can't rise to fight Vietnamese invasion. Please don't come out and say that they can't do it because they are fear of their lives. My friend, they will rise up if they know that their livelihood is about to be wiped out by the vietnamese invasion. Beside, other nations around the world including USA are working with this government. So it must not be true. > And why do you think Cambodians always seem to be living in fear and > "fighting among themselves" endlessly? What are you doing? What are you saying? Read messages on this discussion group. Listen to RFA. Read Cambodian newspaper. Tell me what you hear or see on all of those things. Beside, we know corruption and impunity are part of the Cambodian culture. Are they good for Cambodia? > Cambodian live in fear not of other Cambodians, but they live in fear > of losing their independence to Vietnam and Thailand. So suggesting > that Cambodia joins either Thai or Vietnam then is making a mockery of > the Cambodian people's rights to exist a free independent country > exercising its own autonomy. > My suggestion is just a suggestion. I bet you that Cambodians would be better if they live under the leadership of Thai monarchy as one country called the Kingdom of Thailand. > If Vietnam or Thailand could leave Cambodia as they are for a minute > after having gain so much already, 21 provinces in South Vietnam and > an entire nation for Thailand, maybe we could actually finally live in > peace and security. > Let me put it this way. Cambodians cannot even manage their own country and people. How can they fight to take over Khmer Krom which is a part of Vietnam today. That Khmer Krom is the land of Vietnam, not Cambodians. Yet, Cambodians are barking for it. They kill and destroy their own people and nation. Yet, they want to fight others. Did Khmer Rouge not do that? > The facts illuminate it selves as to who really control Cambodia and > who Cambodians are really living in fear of. Please tell me who Hun Sen, Chea Sim, Heng Samrin, Sihamouni, Sihanouk, Rannarid, etc...... are? Are they not Cambodians? If they are, why are they so stupid to sell their land to Vietnam as you are suggesting? Beside, why is Sam Rainsy working with them? If it's me, I would be against them if I know it for fact. I would not work with them. > -in 2005-06 at least for critics (Kem Sokha, Ou Virak, Mam Sonando, > Rong Chun) of Cambodian-Vietnam supplemental border treaty were > arrested to keep them silent. Sam Rainsy went into exiled then If they did with concrete evidence, then they could fight. Sam Rainsy was stupid enough to do what he did at the border. That was what put him in the hot water today. Sam Rainsy put himself in that position. He was so stupid to act as such. A diplomat would not do such thing. A demonstrator would. Sam Rainsy is not a diplomat. He is a demonstrator. The same thing applies to Mu who tried to sue Hun Sen without any ground. She got bitten. It was not Vietnamese who did it. It was stupid Mu who did it. > -In 2007 Ven. monk Eang Sok Thoun was found with his throat slit with > multiple slashes in his locked room in Cambodia after attending a > protest and march in front of Viet embassy. I wonder if Vietnamese did all of thsoe things. As far as I understand most of your writings, you blame Hun Sen and his people to kill thsoe people. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cambodia Discussion (CAMDISC) - www.cambodia.org" group. This is an unmoderated forum. Please refrain from using foul language. Thank you for your understanding. Peace among us and in Cambodia. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/camdisc Learn more - http://www.cambodia.org
