Hi Azeez, On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 2:38 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: > 1. It is a best practice to give an indication to the user where he is in > the wizard. e.g. Step 1 of 10 > 2. Cannot go back to the very first screen from the 2nd screen
There was a fundamental problem on how the UI code was written, and that is why this was not fixed in the last release. But it was fixed sometime back by Amani and now available in the trunk. > 3. The headings change. So this is not really a wizard, but it is supposed > to be a wizard Will look into how headings should be handled. > I can go on... look at some of the attached screenshots. If I'm not mistaken, that situation is also fixed, it would be better if you can give the steps to reproduce it. > Please don't try to be defensive. The first step towards fixing a problem is > accepting that there is a problem. I know that people could get attached to > their code and their projects, but what needs to be improved, needs to be > improved. I may be the last person to defend the DS UI code :) .. where I always wanted to do a re-write of it. I was simply defending the structure of our wizard, because so far no one really complained on the flow of it, and personally I found it intuitive, but I know that is just my own opinion and not necessarily the majority. At the end, just want to say, I know you really busy there, thank you for your time. Cheers, Anjana. > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Anjana, >> Please take a look at some of the wizards that you have been using in your >> day to day work, and then look at the DS wizard from a complete outsider's >> point of view. You will realize what is wrong with it. If a wizard is not >> the correct way to do this, so be it, we have to find a better solution. >> While doing the demos, I'm not happy with showing our wizard. It doesn't >> flow well, and some views are cluttered, and not intuitive. If you are doing >> wizards, there is a way wizards work. When it doesn't work as a true wizard, >> it hurts the user experience. We need to work on improving this. The >> functionality & backend look really solid, but the user experience is not so >> good. Let us not repeat the same mistakes the Eclipse IDE developers are >> making. >> Azeez >> >> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Anjana Fernando <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Azeez, >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > In most Wizard pages, you see just (+ Add 'Foo') & other links and that >>> > takes you out of the wizard, which is a very bad practice when it comes >>> > to >>> > using wizards. As a start, you could make those appear on the same page >>> > within a div. Also, from some portions in the wizard, you cannot come >>> > back. >>> > We could setup a webex session if necessary, and I can provide my >>> > comments >>> > on each page. >>> >>> In some of the pages, I'm not sure how it would be practical to stay >>> in the same page for those "+Add" actions. For instance, in the adding >>> of a new data source, we need to go to a new page, or the current page >>> will be cluttered too much. Specially in the to be released DSS, the >>> new data source option need a separate page, since it has plenty of >>> fields. Same goes for adding a new query as well. The new query page >>> is pretty large and actually QA suggested us to put some of the >>> options in the query page in separate pages, mentioning that it will >>> improve usability. >>> >>> Also, can you please point out some places where you cannot come back >>> in the wizard pages. And yeah, we can set up a session you requested >>> if needed. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Anjana. >>> >>> > Azeez >>> > >>> > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Anjana Fernando <[email protected]> >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Hi Azeez, >>> >> >>> >> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:50 PM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> > Can we please hold back the DS release? The DS wizard is not there >>> >> > yet, >>> >> > and >>> >> > we can improve this with a little bit more effort. >>> >> >>> >> We are planning the release for end of Feb, when will you be back in >>> >> SL ? .. Also in the meanwhile, we would appreciate if you can give >>> >> some general pointers on the areas of the wizard that can be improved. >>> >> >>> >> Cheers, >>> >> Anjana. >>> >> >>> >> > Thanks >>> >> > Azeez >>> >> > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I was thinking about this, and it occurred to me that showing some >>> >> >> of >>> >> >> the >>> >> >> screens inline (instead of moving to a different page) within a div >>> >> >> using >>> >> >> Javascript magic should greatly enhance the user experience. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 1:05 AM, Anjana Fernando <[email protected]> >>> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Hi Amila, >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Thanks for the comments, and sorry for the late reply. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> > This is something I have mentioned earlier as well. I am not >>> >> >>> > sure >>> >> >>> > any >>> >> >>> > one >>> >> >>> > have paid a real attention to it. >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > The problem with current DSS is that it try to provide every >>> >> >>> > thing >>> >> >>> > from >>> >> >>> > one >>> >> >>> > wizard. Rather you can have >>> >> >>> > different set of menus like data first, data service, contract >>> >> >>> > first >>> >> >>> > etc .. >>> >> >>> > as a top menu and show only the relevant >>> >> >>> > things at the wizard which make less confuse to the user. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Yes, we have been paying attention to your ideas very much :) .. >>> >> >>> And >>> >> >>> this was also suggested by Sumedha sometime back, and at the >>> >> >>> moment, >>> >> >>> we do have separate menus for the classical data services wizard, >>> >> >>> the >>> >> >>> contract first approach, and the data first approach, and also >>> >> >>> scheduled tasks for data services, these functionalities are >>> >> >>> clearly >>> >> >>> broken down. And our next aim is to add more functionalities >>> >> >>> specially >>> >> >>> for the data first and the contract first approaches to be used to >>> >> >>> rapidly create data services based on some predefined use cases. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Cheers, >>> >> >>> Anjana. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > In CEP also we had a wizard like structure. But what we found >>> >> >>> > there >>> >> >>> > was >>> >> >>> > it >>> >> >>> > does not show the big picture to the user and >>> >> >>> > he is lost in going forward and back word. If you can break down >>> >> >>> > the >>> >> >>> > DSS >>> >> >>> > functionalities in terms of use cases then you can have more >>> >> >>> > compact >>> >> >>> > views >>> >> >>> > with each use cases rather than long wizards. >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > thanks, >>> >> >>> > Amila. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> If you compare DSS to some other large data integration >>> >> >>> >> products >>> >> >>> >> which >>> >> >>> >> has a richer UI, you will notice that DSS have the most simple >>> >> >>> >> UI, >>> >> >>> >> which provides the most functionality/customisability. Hope you >>> >> >>> >> wont >>> >> >>> >> see this as me giving excuses for not making the current UI >>> >> >>> >> better >>> >> >>> >> :), >>> >> >>> >> rather, we will definitely look into your ideas and consider >>> >> >>> >> the >>> >> >>> >> improvements. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Thanks and Regards, >>> >> >>> >> Anjana. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> >>> >> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> > When it comes to a wizard, there is an expected flow. You >>> >> >>> >> > should >>> >> >>> >> > be >>> >> >>> >> > able >>> >> >>> >> > to >>> >> >>> >> > move forward or back, and screen that take you out of the >>> >> >>> >> > wizard >>> >> >>> >> > should >>> >> >>> >> > be >>> >> >>> >> > avoided. Those are something you should avoid according to >>> >> >>> >> > the >>> >> >>> >> > wizard >>> >> >>> >> > paradigm. If you go through the DS wizard, it is obvious to >>> >> >>> >> > the >>> >> >>> >> > developers >>> >> >>> >> > who wrote it, not to the users. One way in which people >>> >> >>> >> > improve >>> >> >>> >> > usability is >>> >> >>> >> > give a set of things to be done by new users, and watch what >>> >> >>> >> > they >>> >> >>> >> > do. >>> >> >>> >> > Perhaps you guys can watch me doing something and learn from >>> >> >>> >> > the >>> >> >>> >> > mistakes I >>> >> >>> >> > make. >>> >> >>> >> > Thanks >>> >> >>> >> > Azeez >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Anjana Fernando >>> >> >>> >> > <[email protected]> >>> >> >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> Hi Azeez, >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:34 AM, Afkham Azeez >>> >> >>> >> >> <[email protected]> >>> >> >>> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >> > The wizard is not really a wizard since it does not >>> >> >>> >> >> > necessarily >>> >> >>> >> >> > follow a >>> >> >>> >> >> > flow. Also, if you do things in the wrong order, bad >>> >> >>> >> >> > things >>> >> >>> >> >> > happen & >>> >> >>> >> >> > NPEs >>> >> >>> >> >> > fly. These things normally happen at the wrong time; >>> >> >>> >> >> > during >>> >> >>> >> >> > demos >>> >> >>> >> >> > :) >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> I do agree on the UI issues, the DSS UI is very fragile, and >>> >> >>> >> >> we've >>> >> >>> >> >> been planning on rewriting the DSS UI soon. As in, some >>> >> >>> >> >> validations >>> >> >>> >> >> are missing I guess, for instance, if you just enter an url >>> >> >>> >> >> of a >>> >> >>> >> >> specific page by hand - something in the middle of the >>> >> >>> >> >> wizard, >>> >> >>> >> >> most >>> >> >>> >> >> probably it'll give some unexpected errors. >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> But, when you said, 'not following a flow', can you >>> >> >>> >> >> elaborate on >>> >> >>> >> >> that >>> >> >>> >> >> a bit more? .. Because, I was having the impression, the >>> >> >>> >> >> current >>> >> >>> >> >> DS >>> >> >>> >> >> wizard is pretty simple in a way that, it follows the below >>> >> >>> >> >> flow >>> >> >>> >> >> for >>> >> >>> >> >> the normal service creation. >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> Start Service Creation -> Create Data Source(s) -> Create >>> >> >>> >> >> Queries >>> >> >>> >> >> -> >>> >> >>> >> >> Create Operation(s) / Resource(s). >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> What kind of a flow are you suggesting? .. >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> Cheers, >>> >> >>> >> >> Anjana. >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> > -- >>> >> >>> >> >> > Afkham Azeez >>> >> >>> >> >> > Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; >>> >> >>> >> >> > http://wso2.com, >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>> >> >>> >> >> > email: [email protected] cell: +94 77 3320919 >>> >> >>> >> >> > blog: http://blog.afkham.org >>> >> >>> >> >> > twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez >>> >> >>> >> >> > linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>> >> >> > Carbon-dev mailing list >>> >> >>> >> >> > [email protected] >>> >> >>> >> >> > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> -- >>> >> >>> >> >> Anjana Fernando >>> >> >>> >> >> Software Engineer >>> >> >>> >> >> WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>> >> >>> >> >> lean.enterprise.middleware >>> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>> >> >> Carbon-dev mailing list >>> >> >>> >> >> [email protected] >>> >> >>> >> >> http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> > -- >>> >> >>> >> > Afkham Azeez >>> >> >>> >> > Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; >>> >> >>> >> > http://wso2.com, >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>> >> >>> >> > email: [email protected] cell: +94 77 3320919 >>> >> >>> >> > blog: http://blog.afkham.org >>> >> >>> >> > twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez >>> >> >>> >> > linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>> >> > Carbon-dev mailing list >>> >> >>> >> > [email protected] >>> >> >>> >> > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> >>> >> Anjana Fernando >>> >> >>> >> Software Engineer >>> >> >>> >> WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>> >> >>> >> lean.enterprise.middleware >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>> >> Carbon-dev mailing list >>> >> >>> >> [email protected] >>> >> >>> >> http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>> > Carbon-dev mailing list >>> >> >>> > [email protected] >>> >> >>> > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> -- >>> >> >>> Anjana Fernando >>> >> >>> Software Engineer >>> >> >>> WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>> >> >>> lean.enterprise.middleware >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>> Carbon-dev mailing list >>> >> >>> [email protected] >>> >> >>> http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> -- >>> >> >> Afkham Azeez >>> >> >> Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; >>> >> >> http://wso2.com, >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>> >> >> email: [email protected] cell: +94 77 3320919 >>> >> >> blog: http://blog.afkham.org >>> >> >> twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez >>> >> >> linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > Afkham Azeez >>> >> > Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; >>> >> > http://wso2.com, >>> >> > >>> >> > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>> >> > email: [email protected] cell: +94 77 3320919 >>> >> > blog: http://blog.afkham.org >>> >> > twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez >>> >> > linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >>> >> > >>> >> > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >>> >> > >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> > Carbon-dev mailing list >>> >> > [email protected] >>> >> > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Anjana Fernando >>> >> Software Engineer >>> >> WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>> >> lean.enterprise.middleware >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Carbon-dev mailing list >>> >> [email protected] >>> >> http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Afkham Azeez >>> > Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; >>> > http://wso2.com, >>> > >>> > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>> > email: [email protected] cell: +94 77 3320919 >>> > blog: http://blog.afkham.org >>> > twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez >>> > linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >>> > >>> > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Carbon-dev mailing list >>> > [email protected] >>> > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Anjana Fernando >>> Software Engineer >>> WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>> lean.enterprise.middleware >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Carbon-dev mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev >> >> >> >> -- >> Afkham Azeez >> Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com, >> >> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >> email: [email protected] cell: +94 77 3320919 >> blog: http://blog.afkham.org >> twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez >> linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >> >> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware > > > > -- > Afkham Azeez > Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com, > > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ > email: [email protected] cell: +94 77 3320919 > blog: http://blog.afkham.org > twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez > linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez > > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware > > _______________________________________________ > Carbon-dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev > > -- Anjana Fernando Software Engineer WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com lean.enterprise.middleware _______________________________________________ Carbon-dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev
