A small suggestion about the wizard: I always thought Work In Progress made no sense. You should make it clear. Example of better wording: Save as Draft
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Anjana Fernando <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Azeez, > > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 2:38 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: > > 1. It is a best practice to give an indication to the user where he is in > > the wizard. e.g. Step 1 of 10 > > 2. Cannot go back to the very first screen from the 2nd screen > > There was a fundamental problem on how the UI code was written, and > that is why this was not fixed in the last release. But it was fixed > sometime back by Amani and now available in the trunk. > > > 3. The headings change. So this is not really a wizard, but it is > supposed > > to be a wizard > > Will look into how headings should be handled. > > > I can go on... look at some of the attached screenshots. > > If I'm not mistaken, that situation is also fixed, it would be better > if you can give the steps to reproduce it. > > > Please don't try to be defensive. The first step towards fixing a problem > is > > accepting that there is a problem. I know that people could get attached > to > > their code and their projects, but what needs to be improved, needs to be > > improved. > > I may be the last person to defend the DS UI code :) .. where I always > wanted to do a re-write of it. I was simply defending the structure of > our wizard, because so far no one really complained on the flow of it, > and personally I found it intuitive, but I know that is just my own > opinion and not necessarily the majority. > > At the end, just want to say, I know you really busy there, thank you > for your time. > > Cheers, > Anjana. > > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Anjana, > >> Please take a look at some of the wizards that you have been using in > your > >> day to day work, and then look at the DS wizard from a complete > outsider's > >> point of view. You will realize what is wrong with it. If a wizard is > not > >> the correct way to do this, so be it, we have to find a better solution. > >> While doing the demos, I'm not happy with showing our wizard. It doesn't > >> flow well, and some views are cluttered, and not intuitive. If you are > doing > >> wizards, there is a way wizards work. When it doesn't work as a true > wizard, > >> it hurts the user experience. We need to work on improving this. The > >> functionality & backend look really solid, but the user experience is > not so > >> good. Let us not repeat the same mistakes the Eclipse IDE developers are > >> making. > >> Azeez > >> > >> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Anjana Fernando <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Azeez, > >>> > >>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > In most Wizard pages, you see just (+ Add 'Foo') & other links and > that > >>> > takes you out of the wizard, which is a very bad practice when it > comes > >>> > to > >>> > using wizards. As a start, you could make those appear on the same > page > >>> > within a div. Also, from some portions in the wizard, you cannot come > >>> > back. > >>> > We could setup a webex session if necessary, and I can provide my > >>> > comments > >>> > on each page. > >>> > >>> In some of the pages, I'm not sure how it would be practical to stay > >>> in the same page for those "+Add" actions. For instance, in the adding > >>> of a new data source, we need to go to a new page, or the current page > >>> will be cluttered too much. Specially in the to be released DSS, the > >>> new data source option need a separate page, since it has plenty of > >>> fields. Same goes for adding a new query as well. The new query page > >>> is pretty large and actually QA suggested us to put some of the > >>> options in the query page in separate pages, mentioning that it will > >>> improve usability. > >>> > >>> Also, can you please point out some places where you cannot come back > >>> in the wizard pages. And yeah, we can set up a session you requested > >>> if needed. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Anjana. > >>> > >>> > Azeez > >>> > > >>> > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Anjana Fernando <[email protected]> > >>> > wrote: > >>> >> > >>> >> Hi Azeez, > >>> >> > >>> >> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:50 PM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> >> > Can we please hold back the DS release? The DS wizard is not there > >>> >> > yet, > >>> >> > and > >>> >> > we can improve this with a little bit more effort. > >>> >> > >>> >> We are planning the release for end of Feb, when will you be back in > >>> >> SL ? .. Also in the meanwhile, we would appreciate if you can give > >>> >> some general pointers on the areas of the wizard that can be > improved. > >>> >> > >>> >> Cheers, > >>> >> Anjana. > >>> >> > >>> >> > Thanks > >>> >> > Azeez > >>> >> > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> > >>> >> > wrote: > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> I was thinking about this, and it occurred to me that showing > some > >>> >> >> of > >>> >> >> the > >>> >> >> screens inline (instead of moving to a different page) within a > div > >>> >> >> using > >>> >> >> Javascript magic should greatly enhance the user experience. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 1:05 AM, Anjana Fernando < > [email protected]> > >>> >> >> wrote: > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> Hi Amila, > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> Thanks for the comments, and sorry for the late reply. > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > This is something I have mentioned earlier as well. I am not > >>> >> >>> > sure > >>> >> >>> > any > >>> >> >>> > one > >>> >> >>> > have paid a real attention to it. > >>> >> >>> > > >>> >> >>> > The problem with current DSS is that it try to provide every > >>> >> >>> > thing > >>> >> >>> > from > >>> >> >>> > one > >>> >> >>> > wizard. Rather you can have > >>> >> >>> > different set of menus like data first, data service, contract > >>> >> >>> > first > >>> >> >>> > etc .. > >>> >> >>> > as a top menu and show only the relevant > >>> >> >>> > things at the wizard which make less confuse to the user. > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> Yes, we have been paying attention to your ideas very much :) .. > >>> >> >>> And > >>> >> >>> this was also suggested by Sumedha sometime back, and at the > >>> >> >>> moment, > >>> >> >>> we do have separate menus for the classical data services > wizard, > >>> >> >>> the > >>> >> >>> contract first approach, and the data first approach, and also > >>> >> >>> scheduled tasks for data services, these functionalities are > >>> >> >>> clearly > >>> >> >>> broken down. And our next aim is to add more functionalities > >>> >> >>> specially > >>> >> >>> for the data first and the contract first approaches to be used > to > >>> >> >>> rapidly create data services based on some predefined use cases. > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> Cheers, > >>> >> >>> Anjana. > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > > >>> >> >>> > In CEP also we had a wizard like structure. But what we found > >>> >> >>> > there > >>> >> >>> > was > >>> >> >>> > it > >>> >> >>> > does not show the big picture to the user and > >>> >> >>> > he is lost in going forward and back word. If you can break > down > >>> >> >>> > the > >>> >> >>> > DSS > >>> >> >>> > functionalities in terms of use cases then you can have more > >>> >> >>> > compact > >>> >> >>> > views > >>> >> >>> > with each use cases rather than long wizards. > >>> >> >>> > > >>> >> >>> > thanks, > >>> >> >>> > Amila. > >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> If you compare DSS to some other large data integration > >>> >> >>> >> products > >>> >> >>> >> which > >>> >> >>> >> has a richer UI, you will notice that DSS have the most > simple > >>> >> >>> >> UI, > >>> >> >>> >> which provides the most functionality/customisability. Hope > you > >>> >> >>> >> wont > >>> >> >>> >> see this as me giving excuses for not making the current UI > >>> >> >>> >> better > >>> >> >>> >> :), > >>> >> >>> >> rather, we will definitely look into your ideas and consider > >>> >> >>> >> the > >>> >> >>> >> improvements. > >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> Thanks and Regards, > >>> >> >>> >> Anjana. > >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Afkham Azeez < > [email protected]> > >>> >> >>> >> wrote: > >>> >> >>> >> > When it comes to a wizard, there is an expected flow. You > >>> >> >>> >> > should > >>> >> >>> >> > be > >>> >> >>> >> > able > >>> >> >>> >> > to > >>> >> >>> >> > move forward or back, and screen that take you out of the > >>> >> >>> >> > wizard > >>> >> >>> >> > should > >>> >> >>> >> > be > >>> >> >>> >> > avoided. Those are something you should avoid according to > >>> >> >>> >> > the > >>> >> >>> >> > wizard > >>> >> >>> >> > paradigm. If you go through the DS wizard, it is obvious to > >>> >> >>> >> > the > >>> >> >>> >> > developers > >>> >> >>> >> > who wrote it, not to the users. One way in which people > >>> >> >>> >> > improve > >>> >> >>> >> > usability is > >>> >> >>> >> > give a set of things to be done by new users, and watch > what > >>> >> >>> >> > they > >>> >> >>> >> > do. > >>> >> >>> >> > Perhaps you guys can watch me doing something and learn > from > >>> >> >>> >> > the > >>> >> >>> >> > mistakes I > >>> >> >>> >> > make. > >>> >> >>> >> > Thanks > >>> >> >>> >> > Azeez > >>> >> >>> >> > > >>> >> >>> >> > > >>> >> >>> >> > > >>> >> >>> >> > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Anjana Fernando > >>> >> >>> >> > <[email protected]> > >>> >> >>> >> > wrote: > >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> Hi Azeez, > >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:34 AM, Afkham Azeez > >>> >> >>> >> >> <[email protected]> > >>> >> >>> >> >> wrote: > >>> >> >>> >> >> > The wizard is not really a wizard since it does not > >>> >> >>> >> >> > necessarily > >>> >> >>> >> >> > follow a > >>> >> >>> >> >> > flow. Also, if you do things in the wrong order, bad > >>> >> >>> >> >> > things > >>> >> >>> >> >> > happen & > >>> >> >>> >> >> > NPEs > >>> >> >>> >> >> > fly. These things normally happen at the wrong time; > >>> >> >>> >> >> > during > >>> >> >>> >> >> > demos > >>> >> >>> >> >> > :) > >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> I do agree on the UI issues, the DSS UI is very fragile, > and > >>> >> >>> >> >> we've > >>> >> >>> >> >> been planning on rewriting the DSS UI soon. As in, some > >>> >> >>> >> >> validations > >>> >> >>> >> >> are missing I guess, for instance, if you just enter an > url > >>> >> >>> >> >> of a > >>> >> >>> >> >> specific page by hand - something in the middle of the > >>> >> >>> >> >> wizard, > >>> >> >>> >> >> most > >>> >> >>> >> >> probably it'll give some unexpected errors. > >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> But, when you said, 'not following a flow', can you > >>> >> >>> >> >> elaborate on > >>> >> >>> >> >> that > >>> >> >>> >> >> a bit more? .. Because, I was having the impression, the > >>> >> >>> >> >> current > >>> >> >>> >> >> DS > >>> >> >>> >> >> wizard is pretty simple in a way that, it follows the > below > >>> >> >>> >> >> flow > >>> >> >>> >> >> for > >>> >> >>> >> >> the normal service creation. > >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> Start Service Creation -> Create Data Source(s) -> Create > >>> >> >>> >> >> Queries > >>> >> >>> >> >> -> > >>> >> >>> >> >> Create Operation(s) / Resource(s). > >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> What kind of a flow are you suggesting? .. > >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> Cheers, > >>> >> >>> >> >> Anjana. > >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >>> >> >> > -- > >>> >> >>> >> >> > Afkham Azeez > >>> >> >>> >> >> > Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; > >>> >> >>> >> >> > http://wso2.com, > >>> >> >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >>> >> >> > Member; Apache Software Foundation; > http://www.apache.org/ > >>> >> >>> >> >> > email: [email protected] cell: +94 77 3320919 > >>> >> >>> >> >> > blog: http://blog.afkham.org > >>> >> >>> >> >> > twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez > >>> >> >>> >> >> > linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez > >>> >> >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >>> >> >> > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware > >>> >> >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >>> >> >> > Carbon-dev mailing list > >>> >> >>> >> >> > [email protected] > >>> >> >>> >> >> > > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev > >>> >> >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >>> >> >> > > >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> -- > >>> >> >>> >> >> Anjana Fernando > >>> >> >>> >> >> Software Engineer > >>> >> >>> >> >> WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com > >>> >> >>> >> >> lean.enterprise.middleware > >>> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >>> >> >> Carbon-dev mailing list > >>> >> >>> >> >> [email protected] > >>> >> >>> >> >> http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev > >>> >> >>> >> > > >>> >> >>> >> > > >>> >> >>> >> > > >>> >> >>> >> > -- > >>> >> >>> >> > Afkham Azeez > >>> >> >>> >> > Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; > >>> >> >>> >> > http://wso2.com, > >>> >> >>> >> > > >>> >> >>> >> > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ > >>> >> >>> >> > email: [email protected] cell: +94 77 3320919 > >>> >> >>> >> > blog: http://blog.afkham.org > >>> >> >>> >> > twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez > >>> >> >>> >> > linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez > >>> >> >>> >> > > >>> >> >>> >> > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware > >>> >> >>> >> > > >>> >> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >>> >> > Carbon-dev mailing list > >>> >> >>> >> > [email protected] > >>> >> >>> >> > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev > >>> >> >>> >> > > >>> >> >>> >> > > >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> -- > >>> >> >>> >> Anjana Fernando > >>> >> >>> >> Software Engineer > >>> >> >>> >> WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com > >>> >> >>> >> lean.enterprise.middleware > >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >>> >> Carbon-dev mailing list > >>> >> >>> >> [email protected] > >>> >> >>> >> http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev > >>> >> >>> > > >>> >> >>> > > >>> >> >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >>> > Carbon-dev mailing list > >>> >> >>> > [email protected] > >>> >> >>> > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev > >>> >> >>> > > >>> >> >>> > > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> -- > >>> >> >>> Anjana Fernando > >>> >> >>> Software Engineer > >>> >> >>> WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com > >>> >> >>> lean.enterprise.middleware > >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >>> Carbon-dev mailing list > >>> >> >>> [email protected] > >>> >> >>> http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> -- > >>> >> >> Afkham Azeez > >>> >> >> Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; > >>> >> >> http://wso2.com, > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ > >>> >> >> email: [email protected] cell: +94 77 3320919 > >>> >> >> blog: http://blog.afkham.org > >>> >> >> twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez > >>> >> >> linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > -- > >>> >> > Afkham Azeez > >>> >> > Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; > >>> >> > http://wso2.com, > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ > >>> >> > email: [email protected] cell: +94 77 3320919 > >>> >> > blog: http://blog.afkham.org > >>> >> > twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez > >>> >> > linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware > >>> >> > > >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > >>> >> > Carbon-dev mailing list > >>> >> > [email protected] > >>> >> > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> -- > >>> >> Anjana Fernando > >>> >> Software Engineer > >>> >> WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com > >>> >> lean.enterprise.middleware > >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> Carbon-dev mailing list > >>> >> [email protected] > >>> >> http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > Afkham Azeez > >>> > Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; > >>> > http://wso2.com, > >>> > > >>> > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ > >>> > email: [email protected] cell: +94 77 3320919 > >>> > blog: http://blog.afkham.org > >>> > twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez > >>> > linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez > >>> > > >>> > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > Carbon-dev mailing list > >>> > [email protected] > >>> > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Anjana Fernando > >>> Software Engineer > >>> WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com > >>> lean.enterprise.middleware > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Carbon-dev mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Afkham Azeez > >> Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com > , > >> > >> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ > >> email: [email protected] cell: +94 77 3320919 > >> blog: http://blog.afkham.org > >> twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez > >> linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez > >> > >> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware > > > > > > > > -- > > Afkham Azeez > > Senior Software Architect & Senior Manager; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com, > > > > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ > > email: [email protected] cell: +94 77 3320919 > > blog: http://blog.afkham.org > > twitter: http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez > > linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez > > > > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Carbon-dev mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev > > > > > > > > -- > Anjana Fernando > Software Engineer > WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com > lean.enterprise.middleware > _______________________________________________ > Carbon-dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev > -- Regards, Tharindu Mathew Software Engineer, WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com
_______________________________________________ Carbon-dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev
