Ray, one question: when you were observing through binocs, did you by any chance notice yellow feet, or see the feet clearly as showing up light-colored against the black undertail coverts? A quite noticeable feature of Zone-tailed as I remember.
--John On Jun 16, 2014, at 1:10 PM, Ray Zimmerman wrote: > Thanks everyone for the helpful discussion and sorry for my silence (busy > with life). Here’s a bit more information. First of all, I’ve added a few > more photos, of even worse quality :-/ Here’s an updated link … > > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nm25xfhyarydgxg/AAAvRHHfszKtNmiLRVoy-LYWa > > To recap, with a bit more detail. I first heard the bird vocalize, and to me > it sounded like a completely classical red-tail sound. I quickly located the > bird with my naked eye (90% sure it was the same bird). I did not see any > other raptors or TVs in the area. I stepped inside the garage to grab > binoculars from the car (15 secs or so), quickly relocated the bird and began > observing, still assuming “red-tail”. What I noticed first was the dark > underside. I observed through the binoculars for a few minutes before asking > my wife to go grab my son’s camera. As I continued watching, it vocalized > again. Up until this point, I was still certain it was an unusually dark > red-tail. I thought that I saw red on the upper side of the tail a few times, > but I’d put about 50% confidence on that statement. > > When my wife brought the camera, before I began taking pictures, my view of > the bird was blocked momentarily by some trees. When it emerged from behind > the trees I began snapping pictures. I’d say I’m at least 90% sure that the > bird I was observing through the binoculars, that I heard vocalizing, and the > one I got pictures of are the same bird. I’m 99% sure there was only 1 bird > in the area while I was snapping pictures. I.e. they are all of the same > bird, including the one that looks like the tail is reddish. > > I’ve seen broad-winged hawks (though not dark morph), and I’m nearly certain > it was not a broad-wing. The wings and tail seemed too long to me and the > shape and flight style just didn’t seem right either. The vocalization > sounded nothing like the recordings I’ve heard of broad-wings. I’ve never > seen a zone-tailed hawk, but that does seem to be the one that matches best > with what I saw. I don’t recall that I ever saw it flap, but I do remember > thinking that it held it’s wings in a slight V and that there was something > else about the way it flew that seemed “different” (helpful, right? I know). > The vocalization, however, sounded more classical red-tail than the > recordings I’ve heard of the zone-tailed hawk. > > Afterward, I was very sorry I didn’t have a better camera and that the > autofocus had done such a poor job on so many of my shots. I thought I’d > taken plenty that I’d have multiple good ones to help with the ID. > > Based on the comments and my own looking at photos, listening to sounds, etc. > I’m leaning pretty strongly toward zone-tailed hawk, but would love to hear > any further comments. > > Ray > > > On Jun 16, 2014, at 11:32 AM, John Greenly <j...@cornell.edu> wrote: > >> I have watched Zone-tailed in the SW, and they really do fly like Turkey >> Vultures. Everything I can see in the third picture does look very >> consistent with Zone-tailed (except for one thing), but if you didn't notice >> the flight style, it probably isn't one. The one thing is the shape of the >> wing trailing edge- it's a little bit bulged in the secondaries and somewhat >> pinched in at the body, whereas Zone-tailed usually looks very straight- see >> for instance the photo on the Wikipedia page of a Zone-tailed from almost >> the same perspective as your third picture. Was the bird flapping when you >> took the second picture- I would expect more dihedral for soaring >> Zone-tailed. I absolutely agree about the first picture- the apparent color >> is false, due to out-of-focus chromatic aberration. >> >> If it's a B-wing, it's doing an amazing job of disguising itself: shape and >> proportions don't look right at all. The tail banding pattern is very >> clearly visible, and not right for Red-shouldered. The sound of Zone-tailed >> call is more pure whistle- less screechy or scratchy- than Red-Tailed, but >> not so terribly different if you're not paying close attention. But, would >> a solitary, lost Zone-tailed be likely to be calling at all? >> >> Interesting! But I'm definitely no expert. >> >> --John Greenly >> >> >> On Jun 16, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Gary Kohlenberg wrote: >> >>> Ray, >>> I think arguments could be made for a couple species / morphs based on the >>> backlit photos, and I have my opinion, but as you heard the bird call my >>> bet would be whatever the vocalization indicates. I don’t know if you are >>> solid on the calls, but to my ear the Broad-winged “p-seeee” and juvenile >>> Red-tail squeals can sound similar. Red-shouldered Hawks sound completely >>> different and the unlikely Zone-tailed even more so. >>> >>> Gary >>> >>> >>> From: bounce-116290980-3493...@list.cornell.edu >>> [mailto:bounce-116290980-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Nutter >>> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 4:32 AM >>> To: CAYUGABIRDS-L >>> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] dark red-tailed hawk >>> >>> Good point about the primary barring showing at the molt. If the slaty >>> color of the wing linings and underside of the body & head is true, not >>> just reddish which appears so dark because it's dull, backlit, and distant >>> (as our usual Broad-wingeds appear gray instead of pink on the breast when >>> high overhead), then I must admit that Zone-tailed seems possible. I think >>> Red-shouldered, although darker than Broad-winged, shouldn't be so >>> extensively dark, either. I'm just not familiar enough with Zone-tailed to >>> be confident. >>> --Dave Nutter >>> >>> On Jun 15, 2014, at 11:28 PM, Rbakelaar <rbakel...@aol.com> wrote: >>> >>> The photos seem to demonstrate barring on the primaries, more so than I >>> would expect on even a dark phase Broad-wing. The molted out feather >>> allows this characteristic to be seen somewhat well. This bird's >>> proportions seem to weigh against B-wing too. The wings seem long and >>> narrow, with only a slight bulge of the secondaries. Tail seems long as >>> we'll. The photos also seem to show a black body. >>> >>> Any of our resident experts care to weigh in? >>> >>> Ryan. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jun 15, 2014, at 10:57 PM, Dave Nutter <nutter.d...@me.com> wrote: >>> >>> I couldn't reconcile the red tail of photo 1 with the black and white >>> stripes of photo 3, even though I have seen various effects of looking >>> through backlit feathers. The reason I didn't say Red-shouldered Hawk is >>> that the white tail-band appeared too wide to me (but this may be a focus >>> issue, or may judgement may be wrong), and the white mark in the otherwise >>> even-colored primaries appears to me due to a molted missing feather on >>> each side, not a "window" across the primaries. The reason I said "the only >>> species of Buteo around here" is that Zone-tailed Hawk is way out of range, >>> and also is less familiar to me. My guess was that Zone-tailed would not >>> look so pale on the flight feathers of the wings. I am open to correction >>> on all points. >>> --Dave Nutter >>> >>> On Jun 15, 2014, at 08:28 PM, Sandy Podulka <s...@cornell.edu> wrote: >>> >>> As you know, I'm really just a beginner at hawks...... but... What about a >>> Red-shouldered Hawk? It's got the white windows and the banded tail. The >>> reddish appearance of the tail could just be sunlight shining through >>> brownish feathers, which can really play tricks on the eye. It seems like >>> the distribution of light and dark on the underside of the wings matches >>> that of Red-shouldered Hawk. >>> >>> Sandy >>> >>> At 08:09 PM 6/15/2014, Ann Mitchell wrote: >>> >>> I agree with Dave regarding a Broad-winged Hawk. Ann Mitchell >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jun 15, 2014, at 5:28 PM, Dave Nutter <nutter.d...@me.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I am NOT an authority on raptors, but that has never stopped me from >>> commenting before, so here's my guess: >>> >>> I think the first blurry photo looks like a dark type of Red-tailed Hawk >>> more typically found out west. >>> >>> I think the second and third photos are of a different bird with a feather >>> missing from primaries on each side. The only species of Buteo around here >>> with such a wide bold white stripe in the tail is Broad-winged Hawk, which >>> also shows a black outline to the ends of the flight feathers on the entire >>> wing, as seen in the third photo. However, dark-type Broad-winged Hawks are >>> rare, and the wing shape looks too long and rounded to me, so I'm not at >>> all confident. I hope someone who really knows what they are talking about >>> has a look at your photos and sets me straight. >>> >>> --Dave >>> Nutter >>> >>> On Jun 15, 2014, at 03:23 PM, Ray Zimmerman <r...@cornell.edu> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Today around 12:30pm as I stepped outside (in Eastern Heights, Ithaca) the >>> call of red-tailed hawk caught my attention and I quickly spotted it >>> circling overhead. As I grabbed my binoculars, I soon realized that it was >>> a very unusual red-tail (at least very different from the one’s I’m >>> used to seeing). As you can see from very bad photos linked below, it was >>> quit dark below. >>> >>> So is this a western bird, or is this just a variation I haven’t seen >>> around here before? >>> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t7pw5hoifjpzeey/AABcyimp4JipHTo8DwZc0r8-a >>> >>> — Ray >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Cayugabirds-L List Info: >>> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME >>> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES >>> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm >>> >>> ARCHIVES: >>> 1) cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu /maillist.html'> http://www.mail-archive.com/ >>> cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu /maillist.html >>> 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds >>> 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html >>> >>> Please submit your observations to eBird: >>> http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Cayugabirds-L List Info: >>> Welcome and Basics >>> Rules and Information >>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >>> Archives: >>> The Mail Archive >>> Surfbirds >>> BirdingOnThe.Net >>> Please submit your observations to eBird! >>> ---- >>> Cayugabirds-L List Info: >>> Welcome and Basics >>> Rules and Information >>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >>> Archives: >>> The Mail Archive >>> Surfbirds >>> BirdingOnThe.Net >>> Please submit your observations to eBird! >>> -- >>> -- >>> Cayugabirds-L List Info: >>> Welcome and Basics >>> >>> Rules and Information >>> >>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >>> >>> Archives: >>> The Mail Archive >>> >>> Surfbirds >>> >>> BirdingOnThe.Net >>> >>> Please submit your observations to eBird! >>> -- >>> -- >>> Cayugabirds-L List Info: >>> Welcome and Basics >>> Rules and Information >>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >>> Archives: >>> The Mail Archive >>> Surfbirds >>> BirdingOnThe.Net >>> Please submit your observations to eBird! >>> -- >>> -- >>> Cayugabirds-L List Info: >>> Welcome and Basics >>> Rules and Information >>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >>> Archives: >>> The Mail Archive >>> Surfbirds >>> BirdingOnThe.Net >>> Please submit your observations to eBird! >>> -- >> >> -- >> Cayugabirds-L List Info: >> Welcome and Basics >> Rules and Information >> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >> Archives: >> The Mail Archive >> Surfbirds >> BirdingOnThe.Net >> Please submit your observations to eBird! >> -- > > -- > Cayugabirds-L List Info: > Welcome and Basics > Rules and Information > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > Archives: > The Mail Archive > Surfbirds > BirdingOnThe.Net > Please submit your observations to eBird! > -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
